Ultima GTR vs. FFR GTM?
Discussion
Hey thanks Lucky!
Here's my photo album of the build:
http://www.gtmbuild.com/galleries/gtm_build/index....
Here's an engine bay shot for you.
(I know, I know, the intakes in a shitty position. Working on that)
David
Here's my photo album of the build:
http://www.gtmbuild.com/galleries/gtm_build/index....
Here's an engine bay shot for you.
(I know, I know, the intakes in a shitty position. Working on that)
David
I would be interested in seeing some performance figures as well (in addition to some numbers for the Superlight Coupe) - but strictly speaking, don't think it can challenge the Ultima 'record'. As I understand, the Ultima record is for 'production cars', and the FFR doesn't fall into that category in either the US or the UK. My interpretation anyways, could be wrong.
Interesting thread.
Notwithstanding that the GTM looks like the b*stard son of a GT40 and a Ferrari, it's worth considering the following as there are some pretty fundamental differences:
The Ultima was esigned as a mid engine 'super-car' utilizing all new purpose made components.
The GTM is essentially re-bodied front-engined car, utilising mostly used components that were originally designed for a heavier front engine rear wheel drive vehicle. Obviously, as standard, this means that the brakes, suspension and steering aren't perhaps best suited to a mid-engine vehicle.
The GTM isn't a bad looker, but is essentially a rebodied car. That alone makes it very different from the Ultima. It's kit vs new build as far as I'm aware.
I'd be interested in seeing the difference in cost (if any) on a like-for-like ie. all new parts for the GTM vs. the Ultima. Is there RHD available as there isn't a RHD version of the donor?
Other factors that would put me off is that it would definitely be on a Q plate or original donor reg. Of course, you could donor a new 'vette - but why on earth would you (not to mention the cost!). Re-sale will be dire as it will definitely be perceived as a kit-car here.
Probably best to pay a visit to the GTM forums to see how the builders are faring. Best from the horses mouth and all that!
Notwithstanding that the GTM looks like the b*stard son of a GT40 and a Ferrari, it's worth considering the following as there are some pretty fundamental differences:
The Ultima was esigned as a mid engine 'super-car' utilizing all new purpose made components.
The GTM is essentially re-bodied front-engined car, utilising mostly used components that were originally designed for a heavier front engine rear wheel drive vehicle. Obviously, as standard, this means that the brakes, suspension and steering aren't perhaps best suited to a mid-engine vehicle.
The GTM isn't a bad looker, but is essentially a rebodied car. That alone makes it very different from the Ultima. It's kit vs new build as far as I'm aware.
I'd be interested in seeing the difference in cost (if any) on a like-for-like ie. all new parts for the GTM vs. the Ultima. Is there RHD available as there isn't a RHD version of the donor?
Other factors that would put me off is that it would definitely be on a Q plate or original donor reg. Of course, you could donor a new 'vette - but why on earth would you (not to mention the cost!). Re-sale will be dire as it will definitely be perceived as a kit-car here.
Probably best to pay a visit to the GTM forums to see how the builders are faring. Best from the horses mouth and all that!
Mort-
Stig's post does a better job expressing my earlier comment that "the GTM is a C5 Corvette that has 1000 lbs removed".
Stig's post does a better job expressing my earlier comment that "the GTM is a C5 Corvette that has 1000 lbs removed".
Stig said:
The GTM is essentially re-bodied front-engined car, utilising mostly used components that were originally designed for a heavier front engine rear wheel drive vehicle. Obviously, as standard, this means that the brakes, suspension and steering aren't perhaps best suited to a mid-engine vehicle.)
Stig said:
Interesting thread.
The Ultima was esigned as a mid engine 'super-car' utilizing all new purpose made components.
Wasn't the Ultima designed around granada hubs etc? and even used the Granada rack and uprights on the front and the brakes all round! funnily the factory big brake kit used to be corvette items on the sports.The Ultima was esigned as a mid engine 'super-car' utilizing all new purpose made components.
But the GTR has been developed into an 'all new' car and so does prove that its further down the development road than the GTM... and I would expect the GTR to have a better re-sale value.
As for performance, on comparable spec I'd expect there to be little in it as whilst the GTR is all new, the suspension design isn't.... but you'd need to drive both to be able to do a reasonable comparison.
Both are stunning looking cars, but for me the GTR has the edge on looks.
Stig said:
Notwithstanding that the GTM looks like the b*stard son of a GT40 and a Ferrari...
I nearly spit my drink. That's funny!I like the look of the GTR frontend better than the GTM. However, I do like the look of the GTM from the rear, it doesn't look as "fat" as the GTR or C5. But being a fan of the Ferrari, I may be biased
Edited by mohrt on Friday 27th July 17:03
Edited by mohrt on Friday 27th July 20:35
You need to see them both in person to see the bits you like and the bits you dont.
I saw the factory GTM at Power Tour last year and it was shabby.... but it had only just been released and I am sure that FFR will iron out the bugs.
The interior of the GTM is very cluttered, it has a large, high console that makes it feel like a front engined car. I really couldnt work that one out.
There were a few things that really made it look like a kit car:
Corvette seats
Steering wheel
The finish to the rubbers around the windows
General fit and finish
VERY rough CF interior panels
As for the shape, like I said, you need to see one in person. I personally dont like the front. The shape is OK, but it points up a little, you cant see this in the photos. I also didnt like the way the wheels sat in the arches, it looked unfinished.
Having said all that, its good value for money.
I the UK the whole Q plate thing would make them a very unattractive proposition.
I saw the factory GTM at Power Tour last year and it was shabby.... but it had only just been released and I am sure that FFR will iron out the bugs.
The interior of the GTM is very cluttered, it has a large, high console that makes it feel like a front engined car. I really couldnt work that one out.
There were a few things that really made it look like a kit car:
Corvette seats
Steering wheel
The finish to the rubbers around the windows
General fit and finish
VERY rough CF interior panels
As for the shape, like I said, you need to see one in person. I personally dont like the front. The shape is OK, but it points up a little, you cant see this in the photos. I also didnt like the way the wheels sat in the arches, it looked unfinished.
Having said all that, its good value for money.
I the UK the whole Q plate thing would make them a very unattractive proposition.
Q plate
A Q Plate is literally a VRM which starts with a Q prefix. Use of this plate indicates one of two things: a vehicle which was not originally registered in the UK and for which proof of age was unavailable at registration, or a vehicle which has been built using a significant proportion of used parts.
It is perfectly normal for a kit car to have a Q registration, but on other vehicles, it suggests that their full history may be difficult to trace.
From: http://www.rac.co.uk/web/knowhow/glossary/vehicle_...
Couldn't one avoid a Q plate by assembling the kit with all new parts rather than using a donor car?
A Q Plate is literally a VRM which starts with a Q prefix. Use of this plate indicates one of two things: a vehicle which was not originally registered in the UK and for which proof of age was unavailable at registration, or a vehicle which has been built using a significant proportion of used parts.
It is perfectly normal for a kit car to have a Q registration, but on other vehicles, it suggests that their full history may be difficult to trace.
From: http://www.rac.co.uk/web/knowhow/glossary/vehicle_...
Couldn't one avoid a Q plate by assembling the kit with all new parts rather than using a donor car?
jmf003 said:
Couldn't one avoid a Q plate by assembling the kit with all new parts rather than using a donor car?
yes.... but then the GTM would cost a lot moreThe list of parts here adds up to USD17K
base price is USD20K
So 37K before wheels trans engine etc..... still pretty good value.
Edited by crafty on Saturday 28th July 07:54
Edited by crafty on Saturday 28th July 07:55
jmf003 said:
Couldn't one avoid a Q plate by assembling the kit with all new parts rather than using a donor car?
Technically yes but being a US designed car it is unlikely that it will be SVA compliant and therefor can not be registered as a new car. Come to think of it, it will need to be SVA'd regardless of the age of the parts used so this matter will need to be addressed anyhow.Thanks for the explaination on the Q.
C&D has a real nice article on the GTM this month. Check it out at
http://www.ffcobra.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/ubb/get_...
C&D has a real nice article on the GTM this month. Check it out at
http://www.ffcobra.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/ubb/get_...
Another company that I came across while researching Ultima and it's potential in the States is Born AutoWorks.
www.borncars.com
I corresponded with them and rcvd some pictures under an agreement of confidentiality and just let me say....."WOW"! Very impressive design...just gorgeous.
Expect more info soon.
www.borncars.com
I corresponded with them and rcvd some pictures under an agreement of confidentiality and just let me say....."WOW"! Very impressive design...just gorgeous.
Expect more info soon.
Edited by VanVondenburgh on Wednesday 1st August 17:34
Edited by VanVondenburgh on Wednesday 1st August 17:48
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