55" OLED or 65" LED TV...
Discussion
varsas said:
I was more talking about obvious compression errors, posterisation of dark colours (a lot of the film is shot in the dark) being the most obvious but a general softness of the picture and lack of contrast, even compared to other DVD's, also being obvious. Film grain (which I have no problem with per se) is pretty much a nightmare scenario for video compression and the DVD just can't cope. In this case it probably would have been better if they had DNR's it first.
What player do you have?Spent some more time looking at shop TVs this evening, and my opinion has changed slightly.
I found that my local Curry's does not stock the 65" LG OLED. The assistant told me that he knew the price though, and that "because it's OLED it would look the same as the 55". I knew I'd seen a 65" OLED at Costco yesterday so went there to see it again.
That isn't the C6V - it's more expensive (think it was 65EC970). I took longer looking at it today and was less impressed - it has the worst screen burn I've ever seen in a TV. At first I couldn't figure out why the centre of the picture looked distorted, until a solid background was shown and I could see the large LG logo clearly in the middle of the screen!
Obviously the TV has been used in a non real life environment, but it was still surprising. I wonder how long it had the logo displayed - currently it shows ITV HD. It doesn't worry me too much - I would still like to see the 65" C6V.
I returned to Curry's to have another look at their collection, and this is where my opinion changed. I still think that the LG has the richest colours - at least on their demo compared to others. But I spent some time looking at that set and comparing it to others and found something surprising.
Didn't like Sony - picture looked a tad noisy to me, and that's showing a demo.
Panasonic was just "meh" - not bad but didn't stand out for me. But....
The Samsung KS9000 is very impressive. At first glance - which is what it got yesterday - the LG looks like a better richer picture. However, when I actually watched the demo, it was literally like looking through a window. It felt very 'real'.
I was looking at a 65" set, so figured I was comparing unfairly against the 55" LG. However, Curry's did have the 55" KS9000 so I spent some time viewing that, and the feeling of looking through a window was still very much present.
So whilst I do think the LG has a fabulous rich picture, I think the Samsung is now ahead for me. Plus, the 65" KS9000 is a mere £150 more than the 55" LG.
I've measured since I got home and believe a 65" will just about fit OK.
So, I'll sleep on it a bit but I think my next TV will probably be the Samsung 65KS9000, not an LG OLED after all.
I found that my local Curry's does not stock the 65" LG OLED. The assistant told me that he knew the price though, and that "because it's OLED it would look the same as the 55". I knew I'd seen a 65" OLED at Costco yesterday so went there to see it again.
That isn't the C6V - it's more expensive (think it was 65EC970). I took longer looking at it today and was less impressed - it has the worst screen burn I've ever seen in a TV. At first I couldn't figure out why the centre of the picture looked distorted, until a solid background was shown and I could see the large LG logo clearly in the middle of the screen!
Obviously the TV has been used in a non real life environment, but it was still surprising. I wonder how long it had the logo displayed - currently it shows ITV HD. It doesn't worry me too much - I would still like to see the 65" C6V.
I returned to Curry's to have another look at their collection, and this is where my opinion changed. I still think that the LG has the richest colours - at least on their demo compared to others. But I spent some time looking at that set and comparing it to others and found something surprising.
Didn't like Sony - picture looked a tad noisy to me, and that's showing a demo.
Panasonic was just "meh" - not bad but didn't stand out for me. But....
The Samsung KS9000 is very impressive. At first glance - which is what it got yesterday - the LG looks like a better richer picture. However, when I actually watched the demo, it was literally like looking through a window. It felt very 'real'.
I was looking at a 65" set, so figured I was comparing unfairly against the 55" LG. However, Curry's did have the 55" KS9000 so I spent some time viewing that, and the feeling of looking through a window was still very much present.
So whilst I do think the LG has a fabulous rich picture, I think the Samsung is now ahead for me. Plus, the 65" KS9000 is a mere £150 more than the 55" LG.
I've measured since I got home and believe a 65" will just about fit OK.
So, I'll sleep on it a bit but I think my next TV will probably be the Samsung 65KS9000, not an LG OLED after all.
Older OLED's suffered image retention problems, the latest models are much better. All display technologies have it to some point, LCD's will get it too, but none will get it under normal usage.
If you don't watch things in a dark or pitch black room then the KS9000 will probably be fine, but if you're wanting your blacks to be black then you might be disappointed. It's worth noting just how much brighter a shop floor is than your regular living room environment, and that all the TVs are set to their brightest most vibrant settings. A correctly calibrated TV would look rather unimpressive in a show room situation.
If you don't watch things in a dark or pitch black room then the KS9000 will probably be fine, but if you're wanting your blacks to be black then you might be disappointed. It's worth noting just how much brighter a shop floor is than your regular living room environment, and that all the TVs are set to their brightest most vibrant settings. A correctly calibrated TV would look rather unimpressive in a show room situation.
Digitalize said:
Older OLED's suffered image retention problems, the latest models are much better. All display technologies have it to some point, LCD's will get it too, but none will get it under normal usage.
If you don't watch things in a dark or pitch black room then the KS9000 will probably be fine, but if you're wanting your blacks to be black then you might be disappointed. It's worth noting just how much brighter a shop floor is than your regular living room environment, and that all the TVs are set to their brightest most vibrant settings. A correctly calibrated TV would look rather unimpressive in a show room situation.
Yep, I know shop floor displays are artificial.If you don't watch things in a dark or pitch black room then the KS9000 will probably be fine, but if you're wanting your blacks to be black then you might be disappointed. It's worth noting just how much brighter a shop floor is than your regular living room environment, and that all the TVs are set to their brightest most vibrant settings. A correctly calibrated TV would look rather unimpressive in a show room situation.
I actually quite like the idea of not having to sit in a dark room - that's already a limitation if using a projector.
davek_964 said:
Yep, I know shop floor displays are artificial.
I actually quite like the idea of not having to sit in a dark room - that's already a limitation if using a projector.
I mean you don't have to with an OLED, but due to the fact their black is actual black, a pitch black room can't wash them out, so it's the main area that they'll excel in. You shouldn't really view in a pitch black room from what I can work out anyway, nice to have something like a backlight behind the TV, this also helps the black level appear lower and because the light source is behind the TV you shouldn't get any glare, which can be an issue.I actually quite like the idea of not having to sit in a dark room - that's already a limitation if using a projector.
For most general environments, actual living spaces for example where your wife could be reading etc whilst you watch something or whatever, they'll both be great TVs, and yeah you'd get more benefit from the larger size over the deeper blacks and slightly better colour reproduction.
I found the KS900 terrible for black levels, a lot worse than my 2013 Sony W905, which was a lot worse than my 2005 Panasonic plasma, just that it was the best LCD for black levels at the time.
We are talking about a normal living room with the main light dimmed to around 20% and 3 lamps here, not sitting in the dark.
It was however, great in the day cranked up. But I just found I was constantly trying to tweak the image to get it looking half decent depending on the light levels in the room, sod that!
We are talking about a normal living room with the main light dimmed to around 20% and 3 lamps here, not sitting in the dark.
It was however, great in the day cranked up. But I just found I was constantly trying to tweak the image to get it looking half decent depending on the light levels in the room, sod that!
It really depends on the actual level of ambient light in the room, if the 'black' displayed by the TV is a fair bit darker than ambient then your eye will see it as black, if it's not much darker then the dynamic range of your eye might not perceive it as black.
Viewing angles etc are other things to consider, as well as the user interface of the TV if it's something you'll be using.
Viewing angles etc are other things to consider, as well as the user interface of the TV if it's something you'll be using.
Digitalize said:
It really depends on the actual level of ambient light in the room, if the 'black' displayed by the TV is a fair bit darker than ambient then your eye will see it as black, if it's not much darker then the dynamic range of your eye might not perceive it as black.
Viewing angles etc are other things to consider, as well as the user interface of the TV if it's something you'll be using.
Don't actually agree with that. Viewing angles etc are other things to consider, as well as the user interface of the TV if it's something you'll be using.
The problem for me is with most LCD displays is the moment anything brighter is on screen along with the dark material, the black point rises, this gives a washed out look to an image.
You can still see this during the day, just not as noticeable.
If you don't have a reference point though I suppose it doesn't really matter.
gizlaroc said:
Don't actually agree with that.
The problem for me is with most LCD displays is the moment anything brighter is on screen along with the dark material, the black point rises, this gives a washed out look to an image.
You can still see this during the day, just not as noticeable.
If you don't have a reference point though I suppose it doesn't really matter.
What you're talking about is the effect of dynamic backlight etc, which is the work of the devil, and can be very noticeable yes. It is how a lot of LCD displays get a fairly decent black level though, by having backlight zones they can change dynamically.The problem for me is with most LCD displays is the moment anything brighter is on screen along with the dark material, the black point rises, this gives a washed out look to an image.
You can still see this during the day, just not as noticeable.
If you don't have a reference point though I suppose it doesn't really matter.
Popped into Currys tonight to pick up a Kindle on offer and had a look at the LG whilst I was there. It is NOT flattering to a poor source; I took MKVs of Planet Earth II in 720p and 1080p and the posterisation was very evident. Even the 1080 wasn't great. The encoding process simply nukes too much, it wasn't the fault of the screen.
If the new car swallows the TV fund it makes the problem somewhat moot anyway!
If the new car swallows the TV fund it makes the problem somewhat moot anyway!
garyhun said:
Unless you intrinsically have a dislike of LCD, or are a real perfectionist, I cannot see anybody being disappointed with the KS9000.
I saw the KS9000, KS8000, KS7000 and KU6000 side by side with the same picture on screen and couldn't tell much of a difference to be honest. In the end I went for the budget option, a 60KU6000 for £800, didn't think the KS7000 was worth the 70% premium.I did a compare at Costcos a couple of weeks back to see if the OLEDs really were that much better.
Nice crisp pictures etc... but the one thing I did think as I watched two 65" 4k TVs next to each other, was that the blacks on the OLED were just showing as black lumps, the LED TVs next to it, although not as black, were at least showing some of the detail within the black.
Example, Minions was playing, character had a black belt on. On OLED it was just a solid black band, on the LED , although not so black, I could see that the belt actually had some pockets and texture to it.
So, not sure what to make of that but it did give me pause for thought especially as I was struggling to see any other difference in the pictures.
By the by, for reference, I have a 55" Sony W905 at home to compare against.
Nice crisp pictures etc... but the one thing I did think as I watched two 65" 4k TVs next to each other, was that the blacks on the OLED were just showing as black lumps, the LED TVs next to it, although not as black, were at least showing some of the detail within the black.
Example, Minions was playing, character had a black belt on. On OLED it was just a solid black band, on the LED , although not so black, I could see that the belt actually had some pockets and texture to it.
So, not sure what to make of that but it did give me pause for thought especially as I was struggling to see any other difference in the pictures.
By the by, for reference, I have a 55" Sony W905 at home to compare against.
Piersman2 said:
I did a compare at Costcos a couple of weeks back to see if the OLEDs really were that much better.
Nice crisp pictures etc... but the one thing I did think as I watched two 65" 4k TVs next to each other, was that the blacks on the OLED were just showing as black lumps, the LED TVs next to it, although not as black, were at least showing some of the detail within the black.
Example, Minions was playing, character had a black belt on. On OLED it was just a solid black band, on the LED , although not so black, I could see that the belt actually had some pockets and texture to it.
So, not sure what to make of that but it did give me pause for thought especially as I was struggling to see any other difference in the pictures.
By the by, for reference, I have a 55" Sony W905 at home to compare against.
Poor material to begin with. Nice crisp pictures etc... but the one thing I did think as I watched two 65" 4k TVs next to each other, was that the blacks on the OLED were just showing as black lumps, the LED TVs next to it, although not as black, were at least showing some of the detail within the black.
Example, Minions was playing, character had a black belt on. On OLED it was just a solid black band, on the LED , although not so black, I could see that the belt actually had some pockets and texture to it.
So, not sure what to make of that but it did give me pause for thought especially as I was struggling to see any other difference in the pictures.
By the by, for reference, I have a 55" Sony W905 at home to compare against.
Sin City 2 on Netflix HD upscaled is amazing. That is all harsh black and white with a tad colour thrown in.
The black really are amazing and in the shop, I could see the top of the shop Samsung was not a patch on the OLED. Get an evening with a good bluray 1080p and it blows your socks off, however, crap in and crap out as they say. Feed it a poor diet and it will show.
Edit. I should add that t a few simple adjustments out the box made a difference as well. Maybe they were all up the spout.
Edited by jmorgan on Tuesday 22 November 21:27
Digitalize said:
What you're talking about is the effect of dynamic backlight etc, which is the work of the devil, and can be very noticeable yes. It is how a lot of LCD displays get a fairly decent black level though, by having backlight zones they can change dynamically.
Yeah I get what dynamic backlighting is, my Sony W9 has it, the W923 I had before had local dimming too. But without it it is even worse. Although if not done well I would prefer it off.
The fact is, unless you can light each pixel you will always have this with any LCD, just a limitation of the tech.
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