55" OLED or 65" LED TV...

[gizlaroc]

garyhun said:

Unless you intrinsically have a dislike of LCD, or are a real perfectionist, I cannot see anybody being disappointed with the KS9000.

Depends what you are comparing it to.

If you have been looking at professional plasmas from Panasonic and Pioneer Kuros for the last 12 years and then used to local dimming backlit and local dimming side lit LCDs it seems like a pretty big step backwards.

Don't get me wrong there are times it is jaw dropping good, but overall it has issues, you can tell straight away the LCDs are running along the top and bottom, which is a really weird design idea.

[gizlaroc]

Piersman2 said:

I did a compare at Costcos a couple of weeks back to see if the OLEDs really were that much better.

Nice crisp pictures etc... but the one thing I did think as I watched two 65" 4k TVs next to each other, was that the blacks on the OLED were just showing as black lumps, the LED TVs next to it, although not as black, were at least showing some of the detail within the black.

Example, Minions was playing, character had a black belt on. On OLED it was just a solid black band, on the LED , although not so black, I could see that the belt actually had some pockets and texture to it.

So, not sure what to make of that but it did give me pause for thought especially as I was struggling to see any other difference in the pictures.

By the by, for reference, I have a 55" Sony W905 at home to compare against.

Well it will be, I bet it was in dynamic mode.

It absolutely pisses all over the W905 once set up, that I promise you.


Stick you Sony in Animation scene select with black corrector on high, adv. contrast on high, and brightness dropped to 40 with gamma at -3.
That will give you an idea of the basic mode on the OLED.

Edited by gizlaroc on Tuesday 22 November 21:38

[varsas]

Piersman2 said:

Example, Minions was playing, character had a black belt on. On OLED it was just a solid black band, on the LED , although not so black, I could see that the belt actually had some pockets and texture to it.

Not sure what TV you looked at but the 2015 models had an oddly narrow range for the 'OLED brightness' control, too high and blacks would be washed out, too low and you'd get, as you described, 'floating' blacks and a loss of detail. On my screen it pretty much has to be on 49. Sounds like the set you looked at wasn't set up well, which certainly is an issue for the 2015 sets, and perhaps the 2016 ones too, they do need careful setup.

[FurtiveFreddy]

varsas said:

Not sure what TV you looked at but the 2015 models had an oddly narrow range for the 'OLED brightness' control, too high and blacks would be washed out, too low and you'd get, as you described, 'floating' blacks and a loss of detail. On my screen it pretty much has to be on 49. Sounds like the set you looked at wasn't set up well, which certainly is an issue for the 2015 sets, and perhaps the 2016 ones too, they do need careful setup.

Totally agree. I've done a basic calibration on my 55" LGB6 so far and that was a massive improvement over the 'out of the box' settings. Last night I started on a 20 point greyscale calibration.

I really don't see how viewing these TVs in Curry's (or most other shops come to that) is going to help you decide if you're trying to see the nuances. You'll get an overall impression of the differences between panel technologies perhaps, but you need to have your shortlist already decided by doing research first and be prepared to spend some time and maybe more money getting the TV you finally choose calibrated.

[Shaoxter]

Perhaps a noob question but how do you go about calibrating a TV?

[FurtiveFreddy]

Shaoxter said:

Perhaps a noob question but how do you go about calibrating a TV?

No, a good question and one most buyers won't be aware of unless they buy from a high end shop or frequent forums like these.

You can carry out a very basic setup, which will still usually be better than the default settings, using freely available test patterns to adjust brightness, contrast and basic colour and tint settings. That will get you started. Also, usually turning off any processing and 'dynamic' picture modes should help.

If you want to get all the colours, greys, white balance etc. correct you will either need to pay someone to carry out a proper calibration (£250-ish usually) or get hold of the tools to do the job yourself, which could cost upwards of £500 for a decent colorimeter and software.

Essentially, the process involves putting test patterns on the screen, measuring the output with the meter/software and then adjusting the TV settings to get all the colours as close as possible to where they should be. The reason they don't do this at the factory is that most consumers will accept a picture which isn't 100% correct as they really won't know any better.

[davek_964]

So, went to the local independent armed with my USB stick. They have the advantage of more normal light conditions, and the picture mode was standard not retail. But the disadvantage that they only have the flat LG.

Even so, it allowed me to compare the same video on each TV - I used trailers for one of the Batman films and The Desolation of Smaug - both HD.

I was really impressed with the picture quality - I was not expecting HD content to look that good on a 4k TV.

Before playing the files on the Samsung, I once again noticed how natural it looked so was very positive about it. But when playing the same video the results were fairly clear - they looked much better on the LG. The difference in black levels seemed quite significant and the Samsung looked a little washed out by comparison.

So, I think it will be an LG. But I need to see the curved in Curry's. I would prefer to buy from an Indy - and, when standing my normal viewing distance away the curve on the Samsung was less obvious (in my local Curry's you can't get more than a few feet away). Once I see the C6V in Curry's, I'll make a decision.

[gizlaroc]

davek_964 said:

I would prefer to buy from an Indy...

I would be a bit careful here.

A £2000 TV for a local indy shop may be harder to return than from a big store like Currys.

Currys are also offering 5 year warranty, if you order online you have 7 days to send it back if there is an issue, now issues are rare on the 55", but if you do get banding or something would it not be better to know you can just say pick it up and refund me?

Now you may have a great relationship with your indy, but it is a big purchase if there is a problem and it is 'within spec'.


I bought an NEC Plasma years ago from an indy dealer and it was not good at all, won't go into details, but they decided it was 'within spec' and that cost me £800 in losses to sell it on to a company who didn't care about the issue as they were using it for powerpoint stuff.

I am all for using an indy, I am an indy retailer, but there are times I am pleased not to have the sale too.

[davek_964]

The Indy offers 5 year warranty too, but I think Curry's may win anyway. I've just been told that we get an offer through work which gives me an 8% discount on a Curry's preload card. Max amount I can load is £2k - but that would bring the 65" C6V down to £2,839.

[davek_964]

Well, found the C6V in Curry's and played my video files on it.

I want that TV. Will sleep on it until the weekend, but if common sense doesn't kick in by then I will probably collect one on Saturday morning.

[RobDickinson]

A decent pre xmas sale sees me with a B6T at home now

[gizlaroc]

Nice one.

I think I may have to get one myself.

I have been waiting to see some price drops on the Loewe Bild 7.55, but it isn't happening.

I was thinking of the Bild 7.55 with it set up to use the soundbar as my centre, B&O actives for mains and my rel sub for sub duties.

But even though I managed £600 off, they want another £400 for a stand.

For that sort of money I may as well go B6 and keep my Meridian system too.

[davek_964]

gizlaroc said:

Currys are also offering 5 year warranty, if you order online you have 7 days to send it back if there is an issue, now issues are rare on the 55", but if you do get banding or something would it not be better to know you can just say pick it up and refund me?

Having slept on it, I am still feeling positive about buying the LG. However, debating whether it will really be the weekend. It seems Curry's online buying is reserve and pay at store on collection, so I'm only covered by DSR if I get it delivered. I'd like the safety of that - they do have a 30 day exchange or refund policy on faulty goods, but if the screen was less than perfect that might result in an argument.

Plus it would allow me to see if it really is as good as I expect at home.

Decisions, decisions...

[gizlaroc]

Get John Lewis to deliver it then?

[davek_964]

gizlaroc said:

Get John Lewis to deliver it then?

Unfortunately I want the C6V not the B6V - that's only available as a Curry's exclusive for some odd reason.
Will decide by the weekend if I'll be sensible and patient.

[chris watton]

I had mine delivered by Curry's (Next day delivery)

I bought the complete BR box set of Battlestar Galactica (the new one) in the Amazon sales. Very disappointed with the picture. After an introduction from the producer, waxing lyrical about how the series was filmed digitally and BR will allow us to see it in all its HD glory, it is the most grainiest picture I has thus far seen! The DVD version is clearer. I tried everything with the setting for both TV and 4k BR player, but nothing helps. Must be a really bad copy..

[davek_964]

chris watton said:

I had mine delivered by Curry's (Next day delivery)

I bought the complete BR box set of Battlestar Galactica (the new one) in the Amazon sales. Very disappointed with the picture. After an introduction from the producer, waxing lyrical about how the series was filmed digitally and BR will allow us to see it in all its HD glory, it is the most grainiest picture I has thus far seen! The DVD version is clearer. I tried everything with the setting for both TV and 4k BR player, but nothing helps. Must be a really bad copy..

My inclination was not to pay for delivery - it's free if you are willing to wait 4 or 5 days. But next day is only £10, so basically £10 to be covered by DSR is worth it. Not to mention the fact that it's probably £10 in petrol to collect it anyway!

[davek_964]

Odd - the website told me the first free delivery was Monday, and tomorrow was £10. But during payment when it asks you to confirm your delivery time, tomorrow was free.

I had been thinking I should spend more time convincing myself to buy it - then realised with DSR I could buy it and then have 7 days with it on the wall to convince myself.

Arrives some time tomorrow

[varsas]

chris watton said:

I had mine delivered by Curry's (Next day delivery)

I bought the complete BR box set of Battlestar Galactica (the new one) in the Amazon sales. Very disappointed with the picture. After an introduction from the producer, waxing lyrical about how the series was filmed digitally and BR will allow us to see it in all its HD glory, it is the most grainiest picture I has thus far seen! The DVD version is clearer. I tried everything with the setting for both TV and 4k BR player, but nothing helps. Must be a really bad copy..

The original few episodes (a pilot, I guess) look different from the rest of the series (on film instead of video?). Try another episode, however the whole series does have a very stylized look with odd colours etc. You are probably seeing it how it was meant to be seen...Band of Brothers is the same, looks very different on BluRay and a decent display!

This happens with films too, people used to seeing Ghostbusters or whatever on broadcast TV on a small screen get the BluRay, throw it up on a large screen and suddenly you can see all the noise on the picture. With Battlestar Galactica it's deliberate, with Ghostbusters (or DaVinci code...see above...) it's a result of it being on film, you can now see the grain as the small details aren't being hidden anymore.

Edited by varsas on Thursday 24th November 12:47

[FurtiveFreddy]

I've started buying Blu-Rays again so we can enjoy a few films at Christmas on our new B6 and with 5.1 surround which I'm about to hook up.

Last night, I did a more thorough calibration of the TV and then briefly looked at a few of the films I'd just received that day - Apocalypse Now, San Andreas, Inception, Edge of Tomorrow.

You'll often see those titles on lists of 'must see' BDs for 'home cinemas'.

I'm pretty sure you would all say they all look 'grainy'. Some might pick up on a bit of softness here and there, maybe some colours not looking perfectly natural.
Initially, I was a little disappointed myself with some of them, but the problem here I think is that we are getting too used to the look of video/CGI/live HD and UHD and have forgotten what 'cinema' was and is supposed to be.

Apocalypse Now was shot on 35mm film in some very challenging lighting conditions.
Inception was shot on a mix of 35mm and 65mm film.
Edge of Tomorrow was shot on 35mm film.
Only San Andreas was shot using a digital camera. It also looks a bit 'grainy', but that's added during grading to make it look like film.

My point is, there are many movies we would all agree are technically brilliant, engaging, atmospheric etc. but, at first sight, we're probably all a bit guilty of just looking at the qualities of the image in front of us and comparing it with what we think is the 'perfect' look.

If I want to show off the capabilities of my B6 to someone who hasn't seen a current OLED TV before, I show them 2001:A Space Odyssey. There's a movie which was shot on 70mm film (which is only just now being bettered by digital sensors) and beautifully remastered for BD. That's the one to play if you want to see what these TVs are capable of.