Hi res audio - newbie questions

[gizlaroc]

TonyRPH said:

If you read through Archimago's blog, you will find that most of the claims in the above link have been debunked.

I have read loads of his reports on it. As many people think he is wrong as think he is right.

There seems to be a real negativity towards MQA and I'm not sure why that is, people can either use it or not, it is not being forced on people.

[shirt]

I have to agree with you gizlaroc in that everyone's ears are different and measuring the nth degree of whatever is no guarantee of obtaining musicality inline with your preferences. My personal taste is for open airy soundstage with detail and bass. I imagine your quad esl setup has this in spades.

My hifiman he-400is arrived today so I'm looking forward to auditioning them tonight and then going out shopping for a portable DAP player at the weekend.

Re: formats and delivery, outnumbered raises a good point in what happens when the HDD fails. Been there, done that and know how painful it is. Therefore whilst I do still want a stored library, it does make sense to keep open to as many formats as possible, or at least stick to tech which can be adapted later on with firmware.

As such, what is the limitation with the chord mojo wrt MQA audio? I was looking at the pioneer xdp100 as it seems to have all formats covered, huge storage and a low price thanks the he newer model. Was hoping to pair that to the mojo to overcome its apparent shortcomings in the onboard processor.

[gizlaroc]

shirt said:

I have to agree with you gizlaroc in that everyone's ears are different and measuring the nth degree of whatever is no guarantee of obtaining musicality inline with your preferences. My personal taste is for open airy soundstage with detail and bass. I imagine your quad esl setup has this in spades.

My hifiman he-400is arrived today so I'm looking forward to auditioning them tonight and then going out shopping for a portable DAP player at the weekend.

Re: formats and delivery, outnumbered raises a good point in what happens when the HDD fails. Been there, done that and know how painful it is. Therefore whilst I do still want a stored library, it does make sense to keep open to as many formats as possible, or at least stick to tech which can be adapted later on with firmware.

As such, what is the limitation with the chord mojo wrt MQA audio? I was looking at the pioneer xdp100 as it seems to have all formats covered, huge storage and a low price thanks the he newer model. Was hoping to pair that to the mojo to overcome its apparent shortcomings in the onboard processor.

It is the Quad ESL's that show the most difference between the MQA file and the standard files, either 16bit 24bit etc.
I think you will probably find the same with the HE-400i's.

I also wonder if many are looking for too much difference, I have been amazed when I have been with some 'audiophiles' before when they have tried different dacs, amps or whatever and say there is no difference, when I can clearly hear quite impressive differences, they are very subtle but it is those subtle differences that make all the difference.
Of course we can swap speakers which make huge changes in overall presentation, but when you are swapping dacs, power amps the differences are subtle, it is more about getting a balance between instruments without the cello being pushed in front of the violins when it is not meant to be, it is hearing the correct amount of overhand on a Gibson Les Paul Standard as if it were in the room.

Some people are expecting to put a £2000 dac in their system and here the same differences as putting a different pair of speakers in, that is not going to happen, some people want to measure the dacs and the things we can measure tell you nothing really, it will tell you if the design is flawed but not much passed that, but doesn't mean to say there are no sonic differences.
Measure some of the DACS with filters, switch between the filters and you can hear the differences, yet measure and there is no difference as you're not measuring the right thing.

What makes the ESL speakers so special is their speed, the driver is thinner than a hair and lighter too, they are fast, which gives the most wonderful accuracy to everything, strings and vocals the most impressive.


I don't know about players I'm afraid, I use my iphone as I only ever listen to dance music with headphones, or I'm in the car where it doesn't matter so much.

I just use Tidal now, I never got into ripping stuff, can't be bothered.

[mikeiow]

gizlaroc said:

I just use Tidal now, I never got into ripping stuff, can't be bothered.

Does Tidal have *all* music?

We have a family Spotify premium, which is great - we do listen to more music than ever before (& frankly my hearing wouldn't notice high quality versus average quality, I am sure!) - but even that doesn't have all artists.
Hence (or perhaps just "in addition"?!) we do have our CD collection ripped (at 320kb) and available on a local PC and also uploaded on google music (back in the day it was free to do....not sure about now, but at least they are there if we need them!).

TBH, mostly I listen to radio (via tunein on our Sonos kit) or spotify these days....

[toon10]

mikeiow said:

Does Tidal have *all* music?

We have a family Spotify premium, which is great - we do listen to more music than ever before (& frankly my hearing wouldn't notice high quality versus average quality, I am sure!) - but even that doesn't have all artists.
Hence (or perhaps just "in addition"?!) we do have our CD collection ripped (at 320kb) and available on a local PC and also uploaded on google music (back in the day it was free to do....not sure about now, but at least they are there if we need them!).

TBH, mostly I listen to radio (via tunein on our Sonos kit) or spotify these days....

I'm sure I read an article on FaceTube about Spotify and they were looking to offer hi-res and maybe even for around the £15 mark which would undercut Tidal. Wonder what if anything happened with that.

[gizlaroc]

No it doesn't have all music, but does seem to have everything I have wanted so far.

Spotify have been testing the lossless streaming so I am sure it won't be long before they roll it out.

[bitchstewie]

I got the Hifiman 400S's at the weekend, I don't think you'll be disappointed

Regards Tidal and Spotify, still doing some research but everything I've read so far favours Tidal for quality, even the "standard" service.

[Phooey]

sorry to the OP for the thread hijack.. but which streaming service is best for 3 users (me, the missus, and child)? 2 x iphones and 1 x ipad. And which is best for sound quality via Airplay? Thanks

[shirt]

bhstewie said:

I got the Hifiman 400S's at the weekend, I don't think you'll be disappointed

Regards Tidal and Spotify, still doing some research but everything I've read so far favours Tidal for quality, even the "standard" service.

Well it was a right old palaver getting hold of some high def files but I got their in the end. blame where I am located, my uk bank account not letting me pay, and then the only laptop we have in the house which iTunes works on being in Russian!

Anyway, managed to get (from hdtracks) a 192/24 copy of both ok computer and van Morrison's astral weeks, played on iPhone via onkyo hf player.

Ok computer was pretty uninspiring as I was finding my way around the player and nothing therein inspired massive confidence in this experiment. It was good, but not the departure I was expecting.

However astral weeks was a totally different story. I managed to stumble on an eq setting which worked and from then on I was rather impressed (and a little relieved too tbh). Very revealing and detailed sound with great presentation. I think with more eq fiddling and a better player/dac I will be where I want to. Looking forward to auditioning some players/dacs at the weekend now.

Re: streaming I guess I don't have much choice as Spotify is blocked unless I access via vpn and I've never had much luck getting a reliably quick connection via vpn for streaming on a mobile device. Looks like tidal or nothing. Shame as Spotify premium includes the mindfulness app which my mrs would find really useful.

[Funk]

shirt said:

bhstewie said:

I got the Hifiman 400S's at the weekend, I don't think you'll be disappointed

Regards Tidal and Spotify, still doing some research but everything I've read so far favours Tidal for quality, even the "standard" service.

Well it was a right old palaver getting hold of some high def files but I got their in the end. blame where I am located, my uk bank account not letting me pay, and then the only laptop we have in the house which iTunes works on being in Russian!

Anyway, managed to get (from hdtracks) a 192/24 copy of both ok computer and van Morrison's astral weeks, played on iPhone via onkyo hf player.

Ok computer was pretty uninspiring as I was finding my way around the player and nothing therein inspired massive confidence in this experiment. It was good, but not the departure I was expecting.

However astral weeks was a totally different story. I managed to stumble on an eq setting which worked and from then on I was rather impressed (and a little relieved too tbh). Very revealing and detailed sound with great presentation. I think with more eq fiddling and a better player/dac I will be where I want to. Looking forward to auditioning some players/dacs at the weekend now.

Re: streaming I guess I don't have much choice as Spotify is blocked unless I access via vpn and I've never had much luck getting a reliably quick connection via vpn for streaming on a mobile device. Looks like tidal or nothing. Shame as Spotify premium includes the mindfulness app which my mrs would find really useful.

I honestly wouldn't bother with 192/24 stuff - complete waste of space and bandwidth for home use imo. I had several and some serious listening on reasonable kit revealed no discernible benefit for 4x the file size over 44.1/16 so I got rid and replaced them.

[shirt]

Tbh I just wanted to compare to the normal quality files I already had on iTunes. The difference was notable but yes file size is ridiculous. I'll try different qualities as I progress.

[TonyRPH]

Well, here we go for all the MQA fans.

I think I may have made reference to Archimago's blog either in this thread or some of the other audio threads on here.

Anyway - he has setup a challenge...

Can you hear which is the MQA decoded file and which is not (you don't need an MQA enabled DAC for this test)

Archimago said:

Without getting into the specific details (which I will reveal after the testing is done), let's just say that I have selected 3 songs from the 2L repository, creating two variants of each song - samples A and B. One of these is an actual MQA Core digital decode, and the other is a resample of the original high-resolution file keeping other variables the same.

[Funk]

TonyRPH said:

Well, here we go for all the MQA fans.

I think I may have made reference to Archimago's blog either in this thread or some of the other audio threads on here.

Anyway - he has setup a challenge...

Can you hear which is the MQA decoded file and which is not (you don't need an MQA enabled DAC for this test)

Archimago said:

Without getting into the specific details (which I will reveal after the testing is done), let's just say that I have selected 3 songs from the 2L repository, creating two variants of each song - samples A and B. One of these is an actual MQA Core digital decode, and the other is a resample of the original high-resolution file keeping other variables the same.

Interesting. I'm listening now but finding it pretty difficult to prefer one over the other of each sample track.

[TonyRPH]

Funk said:

Interesting. I'm listening now but finding it pretty difficult to prefer one over the other of each sample track.

I found a clear preference - although I have no idea which are the MQA tracks and which aren't.

In fact I was that surprised at the difference, that I got my O/H (not an audiophile at all!) to listen, and she also developed a clear preference.

We agreed on two of the tracks - although shared the same comment about the third, but it was just a tonal sound preference rather than noticing any distinct difference in the case of the third track.

[Podie]

Another alternative to Spotify and Tidal is Qobuz

[Funk]

TonyRPH said:

Funk said:

Interesting. I'm listening now but finding it pretty difficult to prefer one over the other of each sample track.

I found a clear preference - although I have no idea which are the MQA tracks and which aren't.

In fact I was that surprised at the difference, that I got my O/H (not an audiophile at all!) to listen, and she also developed a clear preference.

We agreed on two of the tracks - although shared the same comment about the third, but it was just a tonal sound preference rather than noticing any distinct difference in the case of the third track.

I'd be interested to know what you thought and if it matches me; if pushed, I preferred A, B, A. The weak link is probably me rather than anything else.

[TonyRPH]

Funk said:

I'd be interested to know what you thought and if it matches me; if pushed, I preferred A, B, A. The weak link is probably me rather than anything else.

These were my thoughts:

---

Arnesen B easier on the ear just more pleasant to listen to

Gjeilo B also easier on the ear and I thought I heard some distortion on the piano in A

Mozart B - the violin seemed more strident in A

And my O/H

Arnesen B - the instruments were more spaced out

Gjeilo B - seemed clearer

Mozart A - sharper

---

So where I thought the Mozart A was strident, my O/H preferred it because it was sharper.

But on the rest we agreed. (She didn't know my views prior to listening)

[gizlaroc]

I don't get what the files are?


Download this version of Gjeilo......

http://www.lindberg.no/hires/mqa/2L-048_14_stereo_...


I don't know what he has done to those tracks, but they are no longer MQA.


You might need a player like Decibel to allow the files to be played bit perfect.

[gizlaroc]

Here is the proper MQA version of Magnificat...

http://www.lindberg.no/hires/mqa/2L-106_04_stereo_...


The difference with an MQA dac is pretty damed impressive, just using the digital out from my macbook or my Meridian Dac , not so.

Edited by gizlaroc on Wednesday 19th July 23:46

[gizlaroc]

The guy is a fking idiot as far as I am concerned.

Arcimago said:

By using the software MQA decoder to 88/96kHz and then upsampling that with a filter effect similar to what MQA does, we can get the essence of the decoding quality using something like TIDAL and a taste of the temporal characteristics of the filter. This is why I have these files as 176/192kHz.

He really is missing the point of what MQA does.
You can't simply apply similar filters, so it will sound different to the original file, but the whole point of MQA is the filters cancel out the digital artefacts that production introduces.


He is just someone that has already decided it can't sound good/better.

I'm not saying MQA is better or worse, but it sounds different, and I like it.

Edited by gizlaroc on Wednesday 19th July 23:47