PC sound - bookshelves or desktop speakers?

[Crackie]

These could be an option...….just over £130 all in.

https://www.harmankardon.co.uk/computer-speakers/S...

+

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Behringer-UCA202-U-Contro...

[clockworks]

Sorry, I meant you can buy a Denon and speakers for £150 secondhand.

[Type R Tom]

For me I would keep an eye on "local collection only" listings on ebay, especially if you are thinking about floor stands. You can pick up some real bargains as people often can't be bothered to post speakers and amps if they haven't kept the box.

I think you could easily pick up some missions for around £100 and a rotel amp for £50 if you give it time.

[tenohfive]

Second hand might have to be a consideration if I'm going to get the most for my money. I've had a look through but can't see anything particularly local that's jumping out at me though but I'll definitely keep an eye out.

I've also spent a bit of time this morning revisiting speakers. Basically anything shorter than 200mm will fit on the desk under the monitor. So far my short list is MA Monitor 50's and Wharfedale DX2's. The latter are predominantly sold as part of a 5.1 package but can be picked up in pairs. MA's are over budget. £159/pair. But I'm drawn to them as I trust MA gear, they look great, they've been getting great reviews and I know that once bought even if I change the PC setup 10 years down the line they'll still be good for duty somewhere. I could also consider Radius 45's second hand.

To power any of the non-active options being discussed I'm looking at something like this:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Nobsound-Bluetooth-Amplif...

[Oakey]

I'm in the same boat, I was veering towards these after reading reviews;

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Logitech-Gaming-Surround-...

I have a couple of Kef Eggs spare but it'd mean getting an amp and that'd just mean something else taking up more room.

[stressfree]

Was in the same boat a few years ago and bought slim apm CA 350A (ex demo from RS) and 3 month old Mordant Short Aviano 1 XR locally from ebay (bookshelf speakers) Never looked back, all in was 210£. The upside, you can sell amp and speakers later.
If you want to keep the spend to minimum, have a look at the second hand Denon DMs 37, 38, 39, 40 and some Mission MX1 speakers. Denon will also sound good with Monitor Audio (will cost more than Missions) and Dali Zensor 1 (smallest)
Something like this should be good opting (speakers are made by Mission)
https://www.gumtree.com/p/stereo-systems/denon-hif...

I am happy with the onborad sound card, however you can get a DAG or USB sound card (my preference) something like asus xonar u7 mkii

[Rick101]

I went with Edifier. Please with look, size and sound.

[smithyithy]

I did a similar upgrade around November last year. I'd had my PC build up and running for about a year, but had been making do with the monitor's built-in speakers. Saved up and decided to upgrade to some dedicated audio..

Looked initially at the 2.0 and 2.1 systems that are marketed towards PC use, I found that as with a lot of PC-marketed stuff, they seemed overpriced.

In the end I went for an AudioEngine DAC + a pair of PreSonus powered studio monitors. The improvement is unbelievable..

Definitely recommend going down that route if your budget allows..

There's a few ways you can do it - (DAC + passive speakers + proper amplifier); (DAC + headphone amp + active speakers); (DAC / headphone amp combo + active speakers).

My setup is the latter. AudioEngine D1 is the DAC for my audio signal, as well as acting as an amplifier for my headphones. Then a pair of PreSonus 5" active (self-powered) speakers. Very simple, clean setup that works very well.

For ~£150 budget, you could easily do a decent DAC / speaker combo. Quick Amazon search, something like an SMSL DAC: https://www.amazon.co.uk/SD793-II-PCM1793-DIR9001-... and a pair of Mackie speakers: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mackie-CR3-inch-Monitor-S...

Budget a few quid for odds and sods though, like cables. You can grab a pair of foam speakers stands (to lift up and angle them towards you) from ebay for cheap.

Edit: Here's a pic of mine after I'd set it up, they're 5" speakers for size reference. I thought they may be too big for the desk (the desktop I have isn't very deep) but they fit OK. I wanted the extra bass of the larger speaker with scope to floor-mount them in the future:

Edited by smithyithy on Monday 20th August 15:13

[GravelBen]

Some active speakers have DAC built in as well (my Yamaha NX-N500s have direct USB DAC connection as well as network and analog connections etc), but I don't know if any in the OPs price range would.

Another vote to keep an eye out for second hand bargains too, I've bought most of my audio gear that way.

[tenohfive]

Oakey said:

I'm in the same boat, I was veering towards these after reading reviews;

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Logitech-Gaming-Surround-...

I have a couple of Kef Eggs spare but it'd mean getting an amp and that'd just mean something else taking up more room.

There are a few mini-amp's that appear to be pretty small - the one I'm considering is about the size of a card reader. I like my current clean desk and I don't
see it impacting that.

Part of the trouble with the Logitech/Razer/Corsair et al RGB setup stuff is that you really need to commit to one company if aesthetics are the priority (unless you're happy with one colour.)
Those Logitech speakers look good but I suspect that even a cheap set of satellite speakers will sound better - I just wonder about bass without a sub.

smithyithy said:

For ~£150 budget, you could easily do a decent DAC / speaker combo.

Nice looking setup you've got there.
The trouble with the active route is that it really is the poverty end of the market - both the DAC and the speakers you've linked to have a lot of comments about device failure.

I do think actives are the sensible option. They're just also the expensive ones. I'm happy to look second hand (and agree about AV Forums) but I still think it's going to be a stretch. What manufacturers should I be looking for?


I did have a bit of a left field idea though. The Wharfedale DX2's have already crossed my radar as they're cheap, small and the 5.1 setup package that they normally come in is £349 and gets really good reviews. Granted, several of those reviews are written by Ed Selley who is a 2 channel man reviewing a multi-channel setup, but I'd like to think he knows his stuff regardless.
Now the way I'd make the man maths work is to split the package down - two speakers plus mini-amp for my living room TV, second hand amp and two speakers plus sub for the PC. Keep the centre for my home cinema room (temporarily, until I can afford the rest of the MA setup.) Or some combination of those constituent parts.
I just looked at £99 for two DX-2's, or £349 for four plus centre and sub and wondered if it would work out more economical that way. Probably a daft idea.

[smithyithy]

Splitting a 5.1 package between rooms actually seems like a decent idea, assuming the connections work to let it be 'modular' in that way.

You're right about the brands though, I spent so long researching and watching review videos.. sometimes ending up even more confused.. I paid a bit more for the AudioEngine DAC than for one of the cheaper brands on Amazon but I wanted peace of mind that it would probably be better built / more reliable I guess...

Good luck with your search though mate, keep us updated on what you do!

[geeks]

smithyithy said:

I did a similar upgrade around November last year. I'd had my PC build up and running for about a year, but had been making do with the monitor's built-in speakers. Saved up and decided to upgrade to some dedicated audio..

Looked initially at the 2.0 and 2.1 systems that are marketed towards PC use, I found that as with a lot of PC-marketed stuff, they seemed overpriced.

In the end I went for an AudioEngine DAC + a pair of PreSonus powered studio monitors. The improvement is unbelievable..

Definitely recommend going down that route if your budget allows..

There's a few ways you can do it - (DAC + passive speakers + proper amplifier); (DAC + headphone amp + active speakers); (DAC / headphone amp combo + active speakers).

My setup is the latter. AudioEngine D1 is the DAC for my audio signal, as well as acting as an amplifier for my headphones. Then a pair of PreSonus 5" active (self-powered) speakers. Very simple, clean setup that works very well.

For ~£150 budget, you could easily do a decent DAC / speaker combo. Quick Amazon search, something like an SMSL DAC: https://www.amazon.co.uk/SD793-II-PCM1793-DIR9001-... and a pair of Mackie speakers: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mackie-CR3-inch-Monitor-S...

Budget a few quid for odds and sods though, like cables. You can grab a pair of foam speakers stands (to lift up and angle them towards you) from ebay for cheap.

Edit: Here's a pic of mine after I'd set it up, they're 5" speakers for size reference. I thought they may be too big for the desk (the desktop I have isn't very deep) but they fit OK. I wanted the extra bass of the larger speaker with scope to floor-mount them in the future:

Edited by smithyithy on Monday 20th August 15:13

Forgive the dumb question, the Mackies you linked have an inbuilt Amp, why do you need a DAC to go with them?

[smithyithy]

geeks said:

Forgive the dumb question, the Mackies you linked have an inbuilt Amp, why do you need a DAC to go with them?

I'm not an expert on the subject so this is pretty much what I picked up while researching, not gospel, but as I understand it..

A DAC will support higher bit rates than in-built audio (eg. what's on your m,motherboard, or an internal sound card) - so this is important if you want to play high fidelity music from streaming sites like Tidal, or you have a FLAC or similar lossless music library.

Anecdotally I've only tested a small amount of high bitrate music but it does sound pretty amazing, the extra clarity and detail in the music is superb.

Additionally, for me at least, the DAC had a built-in headphone amp, and because my BeyerDynamic cans are bit hard to drive, they can actually go a fair bit louder when connected to the DAC compared to the back on the PC.

I also read, though it's probably something that you either notice or don't - that you can get interference through the signal when relying on in-built audio, I guess because all the components are compacted together next to a load of other electrical stuff on the motherboard etc.

Lastly, for me at least, I like having a physical interface between the speakers and the PC. Keeps connections easy, keeps things tidy.

Sorry for waffling, summary below:

• Supports higher bitrate audio
• Powers headphones better
• Easy connections for speakers and headphones
• And the way someone on Reddit explained it to me: an Amplifier AMPLIFIES the signal, a DAC or similar determines how clean / detailed that signal is beforehand

[GravelBen]

smithyithy said:

...

• And the way someone on Reddit explained it to me: an Amplifier AMPLIFIES the signal, a DAC or similar determines how clean / detailed that signal is beforehand

Just to offer some clarification in case this is misunderstood (and apologies if I'm preaching to the choir) - any digitally stored audio needs a DAC to convert that digital data into analog speaker movement (DAC = digital - analog converter).

So its not that the computer soundcard doesn't have a DAC, its just that they are generally not high quality DACs or free of interference from other components. Which is why (as you say) an external DAC (whether separate or integrated with an amplifier) can offer a great improvement in sound quality.

Edited by GravelBen on Tuesday 21st August 12:59

[smithyithy]

GravelBen said:

Just to offer some clarification in case this is misunderstood (and apologies if I'm preaching to the choir) - any digitally stored audio needs a DAC to convert that digital data into analog speaker movement (DAC = digital - analog converter).

So its not that the computer soundcard doesn't have a DAC, its just that they are generally not high quality DACs or free of interference from other components. Which is why (as you say) an external DAC (whether separate or integrated with an amplifier) can offer a great improvement in sound quality.

Edited by GravelBen on Tuesday 21st August 12:59

Absolutely right mate, definitely worth clarifying. Just a semantics issue on my part -tend to refer to these external DACs simply as a DAC which does make it sound like you wouldn't have one in the PC otherwise

[TonyRPH]

In his OP, the OP stated that audio quality wasn't a high priority.

I suspect that if he has a modern motherboard with a modern audio chipset, he'd be hard pressed to tell the difference between an aftermarket DAC and the on board sound.

You can even buy small USB DACs for around £10 or so from China - and the performance from them is pretty amazing.

Example 1

Or slightly more - £21

Example 2

ETA: Added a quick test I just did on a £5 Chinese USB DAC (I think the chip is a PCM2704..)

For what it's worth, I have both of the DACs mentioned above - and I just measured the £21 version too - it measures almost identical.

Frequency response:



THD etc. (ignore the noise figures, the various cables were just draped across my bench amongst other kit)

Edited by TonyRPH on Tuesday 21st August 13:47

[Type R Tom]

Richersounds have the Q Acoustics 3020 for £99 at the moment

https://www.richersounds.com/q-acoustics-q3020-mat...

[tenohfive]

Yeah, too big and the wrong colour for my desk but I've had my eye on those recently.

Active speakers do seem like the sensible choice. But I feel like the usual places like RS, Peter Tyson etc aren't the right place to be looking - it seems like there are a lot more studio type active speakers in stock in places like Gear4Music etc. If I can find a short (less than 200mm) enough pair with a sub connection so I can upgrade that at some point, that don't look too council and that are fairly well reviewed. I'll probably pull the trigger on them.

[smithyithy]

Yeah I was cross-shopping many of the DJ-type stores when looking for mine, as I remembered that they sell those type of monitors and active speakers from when I used to have my decks.

I was looking at a pair of KRKs at first and comparing the prices between them all but eventually went for my PreSonus which were from Amazon (like everything else these days lol) - plus, although I do like the signature KRK yellow, I didn't think it'd match my setup.. picky, I know..

[GravelBen]

tenohfive said:

YIf I can find a short (less than 200mm) enough pair

Do you have space to put them on their side? Might open the options up a bit.