Disappointing speaker demo - may just move to Sonos?
Discussion
I decided I want to treat myself to an upgrade from my entry level Mordant Short MS902s which to be fair I think hold their own for the price.
I may get branded a heathen/juvenile but I really like bass, maybe this comes from my younger days at raves where the sound system would vibrate the air in your nose. I like the physical element of it as much as the musical.
So any upgrade needs to deliver more bass than the little MS902s (shouldn't be hard) as well as an overall improvement in sound quality.
Anyway, I booked a demo at the local audio-visual shop for the Dali Oberon 3's. Apparently big sound, big woofer, detailed top end etc. I had high expectations and went in ready to buy them as I was convinced they were going to be just the ticket.
However I was really underwhelmed, I listened to a wide range of genres, including songs I know have some really nice basslines and they just didn't come through. Obviously being a demo I had them cranked as high as I would comfortably listen at home and some of the highs even felt a bit abrasive to my ears at those sound levels, even whilst the lows were not as strong as I would have liked. I did have that cool experience whenever you listen familiar music on higher quality speakers where you hear detail you hadn't before, but overall, not impressed enough to drop £500 on them.
I know really I need floorstanders, but our lounge isn't huge and as much as I like music I don't really want it dominated by two pillars.
I feel like £500 bookshelves should be able to deliver something decent?
Now i've started considering Sonos as I know they pack such a punch for the size. It would also mean I can ditch the amp/cables.
Currently split between 1 x Five or 2 x Era 100's in stereo pair. An Airbnb we stayed at had a Five and I just could not believe the sound it kicked out, even in a huge open plan living space. I suspect the Five would fulfil my bass needs better, but the lack of proper stereo separation is putting me off...
Sorry for the ramble, hopefully it's not too much of a word salad, long day at work.
I may get branded a heathen/juvenile but I really like bass, maybe this comes from my younger days at raves where the sound system would vibrate the air in your nose. I like the physical element of it as much as the musical.
So any upgrade needs to deliver more bass than the little MS902s (shouldn't be hard) as well as an overall improvement in sound quality.
Anyway, I booked a demo at the local audio-visual shop for the Dali Oberon 3's. Apparently big sound, big woofer, detailed top end etc. I had high expectations and went in ready to buy them as I was convinced they were going to be just the ticket.
However I was really underwhelmed, I listened to a wide range of genres, including songs I know have some really nice basslines and they just didn't come through. Obviously being a demo I had them cranked as high as I would comfortably listen at home and some of the highs even felt a bit abrasive to my ears at those sound levels, even whilst the lows were not as strong as I would have liked. I did have that cool experience whenever you listen familiar music on higher quality speakers where you hear detail you hadn't before, but overall, not impressed enough to drop £500 on them.
I know really I need floorstanders, but our lounge isn't huge and as much as I like music I don't really want it dominated by two pillars.
I feel like £500 bookshelves should be able to deliver something decent?
Now i've started considering Sonos as I know they pack such a punch for the size. It would also mean I can ditch the amp/cables.
Currently split between 1 x Five or 2 x Era 100's in stereo pair. An Airbnb we stayed at had a Five and I just could not believe the sound it kicked out, even in a huge open plan living space. I suspect the Five would fulfil my bass needs better, but the lack of proper stereo separation is putting me off...
Sorry for the ramble, hopefully it's not too much of a word salad, long day at work.
TEKNOPUG said:
What is the rest of your system? A powered sub is the obvious solution but if you are able to introduce a high pass filter also, that will really help your current MS speakers.
Just a modest Cambridge Audio AM10 amp, I mainly listen to music via *audiophile shudders* bluetooth through an Arcam Miniblink receiver and I also have a technics 1200 mk2.I have had a powered sub in the past and it was a good addition although I remember quite often playing around with the crossover and volume trying to get it sounding right at different listening volumes. My amp doesn't have a sub out but not sure how much of an issue that would be with a powered sub?
Also a wired sub would be awkward as we have just redecorated the lounge with new carpets down and I am loath to start messing around with stuff again.
I had considered the Sonos sub mini as a later addition to 2 x Era 100's. Price wise you are getting towards 2 x Fives, but the general consensus online seems to be that the Eras+sub would provide a better listening experience at all volumes? One criticism of the Five seemed to be that it doesn't "open up" very well at low volumes?
2 Fives plus a sub is mega!
aizvara said:
Really? I have some too, and they seem to have a fair bit of bass to me. Driven by an Arcam SA30, usually from a turntable. I'd not bother adding a sub. I guess this is relative, though!
Something I always found interesting is how much your ears and taste adapt to what you are used to. For years I had some sennheiser hd25s which are really designed for monitoring so have a nice even sound. I thought they had adequate bass response and was happy with how they sounded but wanted to go Bluetooth. Ended up with some Sony h910n and thought they sounded very muddy at first. However now I am used to them, I put the hd25s on the other day and thought they sounded totally crap and tinny.I thought the Oberon's would good bass, they have a larger woofer than most bookshelves and the reviews seem to praise the low end.
aizvara said:
Yeah, on room dimensions, I remember I spent a bit of time positioning the oberons, having noticed that there are drop-offs in bass in some places around the room.
I guess a demo situation might not always get that perfectly right too.
100% I found this in the demo room, I leaned forward on the sofa and it was like someone had turned off the bass. I thought it was only highs which were very susceptible to not being in the right position but I guess you can get dead spots with any frequency?I guess a demo situation might not always get that perfectly right too.
NDA said:
You can find almost new KEF LSX wireless speakers within your budget - far superior to anything from Sonos.
They are complete hifi in a box as they'll stream from Spotify, Qobuz etc. Also - they have a sub out, were you to want more bass.
I have Sonos in a couple of rooms, it's not hifi.
They look pretty good, thanks, I think they had some in richer sounds with the gold accent which I wasn't so keen on but the all black versions look quite tidy.They are complete hifi in a box as they'll stream from Spotify, Qobuz etc. Also - they have a sub out, were you to want more bass.
I have Sonos in a couple of rooms, it's not hifi.
wormus said:
Tim Cognito said:
In what way are Sonos not good for listening to music?
Depends if you like music or listening to noise. Personally I’d go for a pair of vintage audiophile speakers and a half decent amp over modern, frankly cheap rubbish. Your ears deserve better. Thank you all for the input.
The room does have somewhere a sub could be tucked out the way but it would require taking up carpets and possibly floorboards and I just don't want to do that being as we've just finished decorating the room.
Also as my amp doesn't have a sub out, if I did add a sub then the existing speakers will still be trying to cover the low frequencies. Isn't a big point of a sub to "relieve" your bookshelf speakers of those frequencies? Not that I am opposed to upgrading the amp as I know it's entry level, but just clarifying.
So that leaves a Sonos system with wireless sub -
If Sonos wasn't tied to the app I would probably go with them and I do have a Sonos Move in the kitchen which is great, however I do resent being locked into their app and reliant on them to continue to support etc as one of the above posters highlights.
So that leaves no sub and the biggest non tower speakers I can get away with...?
The room does have somewhere a sub could be tucked out the way but it would require taking up carpets and possibly floorboards and I just don't want to do that being as we've just finished decorating the room.
Also as my amp doesn't have a sub out, if I did add a sub then the existing speakers will still be trying to cover the low frequencies. Isn't a big point of a sub to "relieve" your bookshelf speakers of those frequencies? Not that I am opposed to upgrading the amp as I know it's entry level, but just clarifying.
So that leaves a Sonos system with wireless sub -
If Sonos wasn't tied to the app I would probably go with them and I do have a Sonos Move in the kitchen which is great, however I do resent being locked into their app and reliant on them to continue to support etc as one of the above posters highlights.
So that leaves no sub and the biggest non tower speakers I can get away with...?
wormus said:
As above really, engineered on a budget to sound good, without actually being good. Ok for listening to the radio but not for music lovers imho.
Lucid_AV said:
Sonos and the like are more sophisticated. The speakers are all active (one amp per driver) and there's a lot of DSP thrown at the sound to tweak for the driver limitations. Psychoacoustics comes into play too, boosting certain frequencies to create the impression of detail, space, bass etc. So much digital processing does mask what's happening with the music, but like Instagram filters on pictures, tweaking up the sound to be exciting or impressive is popular.
I'm no Sonos fanboi but both of you are saying they sound good/create the impression of being good without actually being good which I am struggling to understand.On another note, I am struggling to find wireless subwoofers that aren't only compatible with certain soundbars or wireless speaker system.
This seems to be a solution and then I could just buy any sub...
https://www.av.com/Accessories/SVS-SoundPath-Wirel...
TEKNOPUG said:
This https://www.richersounds.com/wiim-amp-space-grey.h... + https://www.richersounds.com/svs-sb1000-pro-black-... is all you need. Add the wireless connector if you want to.
Do away with the Arcam Miniblink altogether. Treat yourself to a new phono-preamp for the Technics if you don't already have one.
Nice to ditch the arcam, shame it would have to be replaced by a preamp though. Also not keen on having to use their app to change settings. As discussed a good reason to avoid Sonos is not being reliant on an app.Do away with the Arcam Miniblink altogether. Treat yourself to a new phono-preamp for the Technics if you don't already have one.
Derail away...
My clearly uninformed opinion is that once you get over about £10k for hifi speakers it's 100% marketing and subjective opinion on what type of sound you prefer, I'm sure someone will shortly post some frequency response charts or something to prove me wrong.
My clearly uninformed opinion is that once you get over about £10k for hifi speakers it's 100% marketing and subjective opinion on what type of sound you prefer, I'm sure someone will shortly post some frequency response charts or something to prove me wrong.
Edited by Tim Cognito on Saturday 23 March 19:08
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