Star Trek: Discovery - New series on Netflix
Discussion
300bhp/ton said:
I think you do touch on a valid point.
And it's apparent in this thread and other places on the web.
I have observed this general trend:
Utter hogwash.And it's apparent in this thread and other places on the web.
I have observed this general trend:
| People who like Discovery | People not so sure/don't like Discovery |
|---|---|
| Are people who never watched previous Star Trek | People who have watched every episode of all past series |
| Are people who hate on previous Star Trek | Like all of the "Kirk" error films; 1 through 6 + Generations |
| People who generally bash one or more previous Star Trek series/movies | People interested in the wider Star Trek universe |
I love all ST right back to the Kirk days, however for me TOS is mere entertainment now rather than sci-fi per se. I religiously watched TNG when I was younger and then Voyager and Enterprise. Never really gelled with DS9 but saw a fair bit of it. Loved all the movies too, every single one from Kirk through to the modern ones with Chris Pine.
And I love Discovery. I enjoy it because it's a great sci-fi show AND it's Star Trek. I couldn't give two s
ts about canon or if one tiny detail is incorrect compared to something that was filmed decades ago. Beefmeister said:
Utter hogwash.
I love all ST right back to the Kirk days, however for me TOS is mere entertainment now rather than sci-fi per se. I religiously watched TNG when I was younger and then Voyager and Enterprise. Never really gelled with DS9 but saw a fair bit of it. Loved all the movies too, every single one from Kirk through to the modern ones with Chris Pine.
And I love Discovery. I enjoy it because it's a great sci-fi show AND it's Star Trek. I couldn't give two sts about canon or if one tiny detail is incorrect compared to something that was filmed decades ago.
Thank you.I love all ST right back to the Kirk days, however for me TOS is mere entertainment now rather than sci-fi per se. I religiously watched TNG when I was younger and then Voyager and Enterprise. Never really gelled with DS9 but saw a fair bit of it. Loved all the movies too, every single one from Kirk through to the modern ones with Chris Pine.
And I love Discovery. I enjoy it because it's a great sci-fi show AND it's Star Trek. I couldn't give two s
ts about canon or if one tiny detail is incorrect compared to something that was filmed decades ago. This.
I have watched all the previous series (with the exception of Enterprise, which I tried and couldn't get away with) and watched and enjoyed all (I think) of the films. Do I have models of the Starships or anything like that? No. Do I attend fan things? Nope.
I do however enjoy ST: D
If it isn't getting enough eyeballs on screens Netflix will kill it. I don't like The Orville but you won't find me on a thread about that show b
hing about it. I get that some people don't like it. I really don't care why.coldel said:
As a general theme you probably arent far off. I do though feel there are people that are very much trekkies having watched a lot of it like me but who are not so wedded to the canon that can let things go in Discovery. It certainly 'feels' less trekky than say TNG but it is still ST for me with enough flavour of the universe for it to be associated with it - I just don't expect it to be a plod through each episode with the occasional burst of activity, its clear the intention is to try and stuff as much action and CGI in as possible.
I am just working through series 3 of the Expanse (I completely missed this appearing!) and alongside STD gives me a nice mix of Scifi to get on with
I certainly don't hate Discovery. I'm just not sure if I like it. I tried re-watching Series 1, but only got a couple of episodes in. And I haven't yet watched all of Series 2 (what is currently available). For me, I want to like it, but each time I watch it, I feel either annoyed or disappointed. And sometimes both. Neither encourages me to watch the next episode. Whereas I watched 3 or 4 DS9 episodes yesterday.I am just working through series 3 of the Expanse (I completely missed this appearing!) and alongside STD gives me a nice mix of Scifi to get on with
My brother has recently started watching it too. Now he is no way a Trekkie at all. In fact he only ever watched it because I used to have it on when we were younger. But he sent me this text regarding Discovery:
"So the reason I don’t like discovery is that it always try’s to finish each episode on a cliff hanger. Whereas ds9, next gen or voyager would have a story for each episode that would conclude. Yes there was always an ongoing background story, but each individual episode or double episode would have its own story to complete. But discovery is just annoying and hasn’t concluded anything"
This change in "style" is certainly one of things that also irks me, along with some of the canon issues. I know many series seem to do this, I guess X-Files was an early example of this style. And I suspect you either love the suspense, or simply find it annoying. I know I've stopped watching other series for this.
And as another "observation".
When I've been watching TNG or DS9 on Netflix, my girlfriend as often said, why don't you click the [Skip Into] button? My reply is, why would I? I like to see the ships.
And I think this is something also missing from Discovery. It never seems to be about the ships. And when it is, it is always camera waving, too dark and mostly hard to see and watch.
e.g.
TOS intro
TNG intro
DS9 into
VOY intro
ENT intro
and Discovery intro
coldel said:
Yes I mentioned that its a real step change in having an ongoing storyline with various arcs so episodes dont stand alone for outcomes, I can get over this though I am fine with either style, I also like The Expanse which is similar, have you seen that?
I've watched a bit of it. But it was actually that very trait that hasn't made me rush back to it.I don't mind on-going story arcs (lots of series do this very well, most of the DC comics series), but cliff hangers and never really explaining anything is maybe something else.
jagnet said:
Rumblestripe said:
Why not watch the stuff you like and not watch the stuff you don't (works for me)?
Well as it happens I do like Star Trek, I always have done. Unfortunately STD is Star Trek in name only, and whilst that exists we aren't getting Star Trek. Even worse than that is the problem that the longer STD goes on the harder it'll be for future Trek to pretend it never existed.If CBS had launched this as a new sci-fi series it wouldn't ever be an issue and people could just ignore it. Unfortunately they assumed that Star Trek fans would just be happy to accept whatever dross they served up - any Trek is better than no Trek. Talk about not understanding your audience. Star Trek fans are probably the very last group that you can do that to.
Given that Moonves reportedly didn't know the difference between Star Trek and Star Wars it's not altogether surprising that he misjudged it.
The current series is as much real "Trek" as any of the older series. I can understand the complaints about the first series, although still believe that they're unfounded.
chris watton said:
LOL, That's just it, isn't it? They look at viewing figures, Their problem is that not enough people are watching it and nowhere near enough subscribed off the back off the new STD series.
People are not watching the stuff they don't like, and that, seemingly includes STD!
They do look at viewing figures. And none have been given out, have they. So any claims that "not enough people are watching" is at best guessing. And most likely completely wrong.People are not watching the stuff they don't like, and that, seemingly includes STD!
clonmult said:
The current series is as much real "Trek" as any of the older series. I can understand the complaints about the first series, although still believe that they're unfounded.
But it isn't. Which is why more than one person has a view that is just doesn't feel like Star Trek.clonmult said:
Are you actually watching Discovery or just reading opinion?
WTF! Why would you assume that someone with a different opinion to you can only come to that conclusion because they're not actually watching it? That those with opposing views can't think for themselves? Yes, I have been watching it, much as one watches a car accident happening, knowing that you shouldn't really look but morbid curiosity means that it's hard to look away.clonmult said:
The current series is as much real "Trek" as any of the older series. I can understand the complaints about the first series, although still believe that they're unfounded.
I just can't agree with that. There is a chasm of difference between them in writing, style, substance, character development, etc etc. It's like watching a completely different sci-fi series.clonmult said:
They do look at viewing figures. And none have been given out, have they. So any claims that "not enough people are watching" is at best guessing. And most likely completely wrong.
They haven't given out any viewing figures. That in itself says an awful lot because if it was the success that Moonves claimed they'd be shouting it from the rafters as a counter to the criticism that the show's getting.There are plenty of rumours from insiders, however. Rumours of All Access signups prior to S2 being in the hundreds rather than thousands despite giving away a week's free trial with no commitment. Rumours that Netflix refused to pay a penny for the 4 short treks - unlikely if viewing figures for STD S1 had been good. Rumours that Netflix wanted a very substantial discount on the rights for S2 after S1's performance.
If you don't like rumours then how about some hard facts. CBS gave away S2E1 on YouTube for free. It barely scraped over 1m views before they removed it. The likes to dislikes ratio was not good, not good at all (about 2:1 iirc). The likes/dislikes to views was terrible. It may have just reached 1m views but people just weren't engaging. The fan produced Prelude to Axanar is currently just short of 4m views, but with many many times the number of likes that Discovery received.
It's great that you like Discovery, but don't make the mistake of thinking that everyone else thinks as you do, that criticism of it is confined to a tiny handful of outspoken people on YouTube and assume that a small number of people seeing their videos are so weak of mind that they can't form their own opinions.
There is a lot to be said for secondary data but interpretation has to be very careful. Just because of ratios of likes to views etc. interpretation has to be objective and caveated. You could argue a certain type of programme is more likely to cause a backlash of negativity and thus clicks on certain buttons, as some others have hypothesized on here if this programme wasn't called Star Trek would it be a problem? There is inherent error in coming to conclusions with just secondary data like clicks/likes/dislikes. As far as I know most streaming services do not disclose actual viewing figures?
I think we can all agree there hasn't been a wave of huge support for the programme on this thread, it is breaking the mould for sure which has upset a lot of people whose expectations were for something else which was more aligned with what came before and it hasn't met them - its become very emotive because it is Star Trek.
Would it be seen as a 'success' for those that don't like it if its decommissioned? I think it would be a shame, things never stay in constant and if this continues to run who knows who might step into the directors chair, or what direction it might take in future.
I think we can all agree there hasn't been a wave of huge support for the programme on this thread, it is breaking the mould for sure which has upset a lot of people whose expectations were for something else which was more aligned with what came before and it hasn't met them - its become very emotive because it is Star Trek.
Would it be seen as a 'success' for those that don't like it if its decommissioned? I think it would be a shame, things never stay in constant and if this continues to run who knows who might step into the directors chair, or what direction it might take in future.
Yes, caution must be exercised in interpreting such results, but however you view it that's an extraordinary ratio for a major IP. You also have to question why CBS put it on YouTube. It could be for promotional purposes, but that would be very unusual. Trailers, clips and adverts are the norm, not entire episodes given away for a show that's supposedly a runaway success. Rumour from insiders has it that CBS execs did it because they can't trust the legitimacy of their own data due to vested interests. The full YouTube data will be there in its unadulterated form for them to see - clicks, views, minutes watched, etc etc.
For me, I'd be happy to see STD axed before its damage to Star Trek becomes impossible to reverse. Get rid of it, hope that the Viacom/CBS merger happens, remove Bad Robot and Kurtzman from the equation. No more 25% different for the merchandise rights. No Picard series without any other NG crew because of rights nonsense.
It would be nice if sci-fi fans could have one major IP back in the hands of those that understand it. We've already lost Star Wars and Dr Who.
For me, I'd be happy to see STD axed before its damage to Star Trek becomes impossible to reverse. Get rid of it, hope that the Viacom/CBS merger happens, remove Bad Robot and Kurtzman from the equation. No more 25% different for the merchandise rights. No Picard series without any other NG crew because of rights nonsense.
It would be nice if sci-fi fans could have one major IP back in the hands of those that understand it. We've already lost Star Wars and Dr Who.
300bhp/ton said:
clonmult said:
The current series is as much real "Trek" as any of the older series. I can understand the complaints about the first series, although still believe that they're unfounded.
But it isn't. Which is why more than one person has a view that is just doesn't feel like Star Trek.
Hey there Star Trek fans. It's all kicked off on this thread again 
When TNG came out, it had it had its detractors because it wasn't true to TOS. When DS9 came out out people said it was boring and then it was criticised for being too warlike and not true to TNG. Voyager came out and people hated the captain and said the crew had no chemistry. Enterprise came out and people said it was the worst Star Trek ever.
Not me though. I loved ALL the series of Star Trek and read a number of the books. I think with STD and The Orville on our screens at the moment, today is a fantastic time to be a Star Trek fan, so cheer up people.
I also loved B5, BSG, Firefly etc. and I've been re-watching Sliders since it's on Freeview at the moment. I haven't seen it since it was first broadcast and I'm enjoying the nostalgia. Maybe I'm just a happy chappie
Never gelled with The Expanse especially or anything Star Wars apart from the original trilogy.
I agree with the complaints made by previous posters. It is paced too fast, the continuity with previous series isn't right (but it can be with some imagination), the ship isn't the main character that it should be, MB isn't the ideal hero character. However all of these are just niggles and it is honestly very difficult for me to understand when I see posters citing them as reasons not to watch the show.
Currently we have a cool ship with a unique capability, a fascinating crew that is really starting to gel together and build some relationships. Other crew members appear interesting and we haven even scratched their surface yet. We have a charismatic captain in the form of Pike. The war with the Klingons has ended and they are growing hair again
. We have a storey arc on a per series basis like Enterprise and B5.
What more could you want
When TNG came out, it had it had its detractors because it wasn't true to TOS. When DS9 came out out people said it was boring and then it was criticised for being too warlike and not true to TNG. Voyager came out and people hated the captain and said the crew had no chemistry. Enterprise came out and people said it was the worst Star Trek ever.
Not me though. I loved ALL the series of Star Trek and read a number of the books. I think with STD and The Orville on our screens at the moment, today is a fantastic time to be a Star Trek fan, so cheer up people.
I also loved B5, BSG, Firefly etc. and I've been re-watching Sliders since it's on Freeview at the moment. I haven't seen it since it was first broadcast and I'm enjoying the nostalgia. Maybe I'm just a happy chappie
Never gelled with The Expanse especially or anything Star Wars apart from the original trilogy. I agree with the complaints made by previous posters. It is paced too fast, the continuity with previous series isn't right (but it can be with some imagination), the ship isn't the main character that it should be, MB isn't the ideal hero character. However all of these are just niggles and it is honestly very difficult for me to understand when I see posters citing them as reasons not to watch the show.
Currently we have a cool ship with a unique capability, a fascinating crew that is really starting to gel together and build some relationships. Other crew members appear interesting and we haven even scratched their surface yet. We have a charismatic captain in the form of Pike. The war with the Klingons has ended and they are growing hair again
. We have a storey arc on a per series basis like Enterprise and B5.What more could you want
jagnet said:
For me, I'd be happy to see STD axed before its damage to Star Trek becomes impossible to reverse. Get rid of it, hope that the Viacom/CBS merger happens, remove Bad Robot and Kurtzman from the equation. No more 25% different for the merchandise rights. No Picard series without any other NG crew because of rights nonsense.
It would be nice if sci-fi fans could have one major IP back in the hands of those that understand it. We've already lost Star Wars and Dr Who.
RIP Babylon 5 Crusade and Star Gate Universe. Axing those series wasn't exactly for the greater good of the franchise was it? They are stone cold dead. B5 and Star Gate had very good and long running shows with a large fan base. If it can happen to them, it can happen to Star Trek and you will never get the perfect show you want! It would be nice if sci-fi fans could have one major IP back in the hands of those that understand it. We've already lost Star Wars and Dr Who.
Beefmeister said:
300bhp/ton said:
clonmult said:
The current series is as much real "Trek" as any of the older series. I can understand the complaints about the first series, although still believe that they're unfounded.
But it isn't. Which is why more than one person has a view that is just doesn't feel like Star Trek.
Do keep up at the back 
AlexC1981 said:
RIP Babylon 5 Crusade and Star Gate Universe. Axing those series wasn't exactly for the greater good of the franchise was it? They are stone cold dead. B5 and Star Gate had very good and long running shows with a large fan base. If it can happen to them, it can happen to Star Trek and you will never get the perfect show you want!
SGU was a hybrid, it didn't really know what it wanted to be, it tried to ape BSG, but didn't wanna go the whole hog. It was mishandled, a shame.AlexC1981 said:
RIP Babylon 5 Crusade and Star Gate Universe. Axing those series wasn't exactly for the greater good of the franchise was it? They are stone cold dead. B5 and Star Gate had very good and long running shows with a large fan base. If it can happen to them, it can happen to Star Trek and you will never get the perfect show you want!
Babylon 5 ran for the full 5 series, it was never intended to continue beyond that as far as I know so cancellation of Crusade made no difference. SGU - cancelled by Syfy - par for the course for them. I'd argue that putting out a bad show is not good for any IP. People turn off, the studios view it as lack of interest in the series rather than admit that it's just not very good and off it goes into hiatus for years, sometimes never to return. Look at Red Dwarf - after Grant left we had the much poorer series 7 & 8 where the feel of the show changed considerably, viewing figures tumbled which resulted in a 10 year hiatus until "Back to Earth".
If everyone that's not happy with STD just keeps quiet and stops watching then it's more likely we won't get Star Trek back for a decade or more. At least our constant "whining" tells CBS that there's demand for Star Trek, we just don't like their version of it.
There is plenty of demand for Star Trek, which Paramount and CBS aren't going to ignore. There's still gold in the franchise, so long as they don't spend more trying to mine it than they can actually dig up. Cancelling STD now isn't going to see us without Star Trek for long imho, just hopefully long enough to prise off the clawing fingers of Bad Reboot and see the Viacom/CBS merger happen.
Sci-fi fans can be hard to please, but my goodness they can be very very loyal as well. Look at the reaction when The Expanse was cancelled by Syfy and the efforts that were made to get it picked up elsewhere, eg flying banners over Amazon's HQ. Even George R.R. Martin wrote to Jeff Bezos to encourage him to pick up the series - I just can't picture him doing the same for STD.
Watched every episode since the show aired...
Hmmm. It just seems to be getting worse from a writing point of view. I don't care for spock, an angel, some mass in space which blow the spaceship a safe distance before imploding.
Wtf? They need to keep up with the Ash Klingon storyline.
Hmmm. It just seems to be getting worse from a writing point of view. I don't care for spock, an angel, some mass in space which blow the spaceship a safe distance before imploding.
Wtf? They need to keep up with the Ash Klingon storyline.
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