Harry's Garage - YouTube
Discussion
weeboot said:
Watching the 720S video and enjoying it, but are we really talking about turbo lag, or is it more "drivetrain lag"?
One thing that only really become "common knowledge" very recently, is that they use shonky old TD04 turbos...I'm an immense Mclarenophile, and that really hit me. I suddenly understand the aftermarket tuners offering turbo upgrades to modern kit... Not for power, but driveability and throttle response.
Sway said:
weeboot said:
Watching the 720S video and enjoying it, but are we really talking about turbo lag, or is it more "drivetrain lag"?
One thing that only really become "common knowledge" very recently, is that they use shonky old TD04 turbos...I'm an immense Mclarenophile, and that really hit me. I suddenly understand the aftermarket tuners offering turbo upgrades to modern kit... Not for power, but driveability and throttle response.
bolidemichael said:
Sway said:
weeboot said:
Watching the 720S video and enjoying it, but are we really talking about turbo lag, or is it more "drivetrain lag"?
One thing that only really become "common knowledge" very recently, is that they use shonky old TD04 turbos...I'm an immense Mclarenophile, and that really hit me. I suddenly understand the aftermarket tuners offering turbo upgrades to modern kit... Not for power, but driveability and throttle response.
Doofus said:
bolidemichael said:
Sway said:
weeboot said:
Watching the 720S video and enjoying it, but are we really talking about turbo lag, or is it more "drivetrain lag"?
One thing that only really become "common knowledge" very recently, is that they use shonky old TD04 turbos...I'm an immense Mclarenophile, and that really hit me. I suddenly understand the aftermarket tuners offering turbo upgrades to modern kit... Not for power, but driveability and throttle response.
bolidemichael said:
Sway said:
weeboot said:
Watching the 720S video and enjoying it, but are we really talking about turbo lag, or is it more "drivetrain lag"?
One thing that only really become "common knowledge" very recently, is that they use shonky old TD04 turbos...I'm an immense Mclarenophile, and that really hit me. I suddenly understand the aftermarket tuners offering turbo upgrades to modern kit... Not for power, but driveability and throttle response.
That would have had a TD04 turbo. They're f
king ancient tech...Meanwhile, the world has moved on. Initially, ball bearing turbos which have much lower internal friction - and so spin up much easier and have much, much less boost threshold lag. They spin up faster, at lower airflow through the exhaust - which means much better power response at lower revs.
(There's also a 'hybrid' approach which has ball bearings on one side, with attendent middle ground improvement).
Other high end OEMs have gone even further. Porsche went 'variable scroll', where the shape of the 'fan' in the turbo actually changes based on turbo rpm - bit like variable cam timing. Instead of making a 'one shape fits all' for all parts of the rev range (and therefore effectively being a chunky compromise everywhere too), the turbine tunes itself through the range so it's much more efficient.
The fact that McLaren specced the TD04 genuinely amazes me. It's just s
t...(More than casually interested technically minded but no engineer answering!)
untakenname said:
Surely they can't be right? I upgraded my Saab 900 with a Misto TD04 from a 1992 Saab 9000, surely tech has moved on in 30 years.
As I said, yes, it's moved on massively...It wouldn't surprise me if McLaren are the only car OEM using them on a current model - and your example shows exactly why I was so shocked to hear it.
weeboot said:
Watching the 720S video and enjoying it, but are we really talking about turbo lag, or is it more "drivetrain lag"?
It did look like it wasn't helped by being a bit slow to kick down. He was just pootling in auto, and not in a sport mode, when he floored it. The whole thing took a moment to wake up. Normally he manually drops it down into second and floors it at that point, whereas it looked like it was in fifth or sixth to start with.thegreenhell said:
It did look like it wasn't helped by being a bit slow to kick down. He was just pootling in auto, and not in a sport mode, when he floored it. The whole thing took a moment to wake up. Normally he manually drops it down into second and floors it at that point, whereas it looked like it was in fifth or sixth to start with.
Exactly... this isn’t a real comparison, but in the DCT equipped Golf GTi I drive regularly, simply mashing the throttle at 30 leads to a bit of a confused moment where it has a think about what to do next.
Click into manual, select 2nd and do the same (avoiding the kick down switch) and it’ll take off very well indeed!!
So that’s driveline configuration to me, not a TD04 issue, or anything else powertrain related.
ettore said:
thegreenhell said:
The original engine this is based on was designed in the 1980s, so it's kind of appropriate...
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