Star Wars: The Last Jedi (CONTAINS SPOILERS)
Discussion
Disney have made plenty of mediocre films.
Their three big purposes of recent years are a departure for them though. I posted a vid ages back as to what led Eiger to make them.
vid on how the course correction is an admittance of how disney f
ked the pooch on the last film.
ComicArtistPro Secrets Published on 3 Nov 2018
vid on RJ just not letting his misfire go
WorldClassBullstters Premiered on 6 Nov 2018
Their three big purposes of recent years are a departure for them though. I posted a vid ages back as to what led Eiger to make them.
vid on how the course correction is an admittance of how disney f
ked the pooch on the last film.DISNEY LUCASFILM FINALLY ADMITS THEY’VE COMPLETELY SCREWED UP STAR WARS!!
https://youtu.be/SlXtW91Boh8ComicArtistPro Secrets Published on 3 Nov 2018
vid on RJ just not letting his misfire go
Rian Johnson: Too Stupid For Star Wars
https://youtu.be/c8248WvUNk4WorldClassBulls
tters Premiered on 6 Nov 2018jagnet said:
Coincidentally, they've had no idea where they're going with this trilogy either. And that's not a joke.
But some will keep defending a trilogy of films so disjointed that the writer of the second film didn't even seem to communicate with the writer of the first one.
What we do know is that anything interesting set up in the first movie was destroyed in the second and they don't have any members left of the original cast to
p1stonhead said:
Whats are people thoughts on the potential plot?
Will they continue in the direction EP8 set, or try to do another wierd shift back to sort of following on from EP7?
I cant see it being anything other than a mess unless its about 7 hours long and they can flesh out a better story.
One of those sea cow things with big tits becomes the new Yoda and trains Finn, Rose and Poe to become Jedi, during which Vice-Admiral Gender Studies returns as a force ghost to abuse Finn and Poe. Kylo and General Hux fall in love and decide to use the Empire to promote a vegan lifestyle. Rey decides she is too powerful and disappears like Luke. Will they continue in the direction EP8 set, or try to do another wierd shift back to sort of following on from EP7?
I cant see it being anything other than a mess unless its about 7 hours long and they can flesh out a better story.
Wobbegong said:
One of those sea cow things with big tits becomes the new Yoda and trains Finn, Rose and Poe to become Jedi, during which Vice-Admiral Gender Studies returns as a force ghost to abuse Finn and Poe. Kylo and General Hux fall in love and decide to use the Empire to promote a vegan lifestyle. Rey decides she is too powerful and disappears like Luke.
Sounds better than the last one. Have you thought about submitting your plot to Lucas films?. What I don't get is though, if you don't like the new films, why keep going and watching them, or spending hours micro analysing for plot holes or inconsistencies? All Star Wars films are built on plot holes and inconsistencies, it's part of the style.
I didn't like the Prequel Trilogy very much, they were reasonable films sunk by George Lucas autistic lack of scriptwriting ability. But they didn't ruin my enjoyment of Star Wars.
I didn't like the Prequel Trilogy very much, they were reasonable films sunk by George Lucas autistic lack of scriptwriting ability. But they didn't ruin my enjoyment of Star Wars.
Episode 9 will be about the construction of the Death Star 3 (aka Galaxy Destroyer). Meanwhile Finn and Poe get mixed up with some bounty hunters / smugglers who commit them to death in a desert, only for Rey to use her Jedi skillz to break them free. They then meet up with the fleet (which has miraculously recovered) and take on the Galaxy Destroyer which is orbiting around a huge planet that protects it, before it annihilates the Resistance forces.
Meanwhile Rey realises she must confront her real parent (Jar Jar Binks) who is running the whole First Order show, and she kills him.
The natives on this planet help overcome the intruders and help destroy the Galaxy Destroyer, with Poe, Finn and Rey's help.
Meanwhile Rey realises she must confront her real parent (Jar Jar Binks) who is running the whole First Order show, and she kills him.
The natives on this planet help overcome the intruders and help destroy the Galaxy Destroyer, with Poe, Finn and Rey's help.
warch said:
What I don't get is though, if you don't like the new films, why keep going and watching them, or spending hours micro analysing for plot holes or inconsistencies? All Star Wars films are built on plot holes and inconsistencies, it's part of the style.
I didn't like the Prequel Trilogy very much, they were reasonable films sunk by George Lucas autistic lack of scriptwriting ability. But they didn't ruin my enjoyment of Star Wars.
Because it's a franchise that a lot of people grew up with an love and it's very annoying that Disney have ruined it. For all the bad press the prequels do have some redeeming qualities, especially the second and third film. They are also prequels which means they didn't really mess with the characters we know and love too much. Sure Anakin's fall from grace is a bit disjointed but it just about works and McGregor as Obi Wan was probably one of the best things about it. At the end of the day they didn't piss on the OT, character assassinate our favourite characters or try to ram some right on equal opportunities message down our throats.I didn't like the Prequel Trilogy very much, they were reasonable films sunk by George Lucas autistic lack of scriptwriting ability. But they didn't ruin my enjoyment of Star Wars.
Even TFA wasn't too bad a start I thought, sure it was a bit formulaic (yet another superweapon) and they needlessly wasted Han Solo but it was a decent introduction to the new characters, especially Rey and Finn and the plot points they setup actually seemed to be going in the right direction.
TLJ undid ALL the things TFA got right while worsening the bits that it got wrong. It's like they deliberately set out to destroy Luke and Yoda's legacy, rip up the plot points setup in the OT and TFA and undo all the good will towards the new characters. I'd suspect them of deliberately trying to sabotage the franchise but have no idea why they'd want to do that.
JagLover said:
Wobbegong said:
One of those sea cow things with big tits becomes the new Yoda and trains Finn, Rose and Poe to become Jedi, during which Vice-Admiral Gender Studies returns as a force ghost to abuse Finn and Poe. Kylo and General Hux fall in love and decide to use the Empire to promote a vegan lifestyle. Rey decides she is too powerful and disappears like Luke.
Sounds better than the last one. Have you thought about submitting your plot to Lucas films?. At the end of the day it's supposed to be based a long time ago in a galaxy far far away so shouldn't be linked to our world. The OT had the benefit of being made in a more innocent time, the new ones should have just followed this tone and avoided all this nonsense about gender politics, veiled comments on Trumps administration, save the innocent animals, war is bad nonsense and absolutely no mum jokes. They are modern society trappings that while relevant to our lives, should not be allowed anywhere near a Star Wars movie.
Kathleen and her cronies decided to use this movie as their personal political mouthpiece and they convinced the marketing men that it would make the films more "hip" and relatable by modern audiences. Star Wars is a sci-fi fantasy movie and should be pure escapism, a timeless story about the basic struggle between good and evil, you can still watch the OT 40 years later. How many people will be watching Gender Wars in 40 years time?
Kathleen and her cronies decided to use this movie as their personal political mouthpiece and they convinced the marketing men that it would make the films more "hip" and relatable by modern audiences. Star Wars is a sci-fi fantasy movie and should be pure escapism, a timeless story about the basic struggle between good and evil, you can still watch the OT 40 years later. How many people will be watching Gender Wars in 40 years time?
Guvernator said:
Because it's a franchise that a lot of people grew up with an love and it's very annoying that Disney have ruined it. For all the bad press the prequels do have some redeeming qualities, especially the second and third film. They are also prequels which means they didn't really mess with the characters we know and love too much. Sure Anakin's fall from grace is a bit disjointed but it just about works and McGregor as Obi Wan was probably one of the best things about it. At the end of the day they didn't piss on the OT, character assassinate our favourite characters or try to ram some right on equal opportunities message down our throats.
.
They do have some redeeming qualities but I think their main saving grace is that they are not ruining any of the original trilogies characters or removing the ability to create further movies set in the universe..
Anakin's fall into the dark side didn't really work for me. The only thing that felt connected was him slaughtering the Tusken village for revenge. That is the approach they should have followed IMO, a struggle between the human side and the Jedi side, with the human side leading to the triumph of the dark. Instead we had one conversation about "defeating death" and it is off to kill the younglings.
In the hands of a good writer it could have been great, with us, the audience, emphasising with every decision he made that led to him turning to the dark side.
That to me is the most important problem with the prequel trilogies. Not the weightless CGI action or the (at times) terrible dialogue. It is that they failed in their primary task of showing the birth of Darth Vader.
Is it too much to hope for some Dallas style plot resurrection remake for this one? Turns out it was all a bad 'Luke's special blue milk' inspired trip on behalf of Rey, who wakes up back on craggy island with Luke chuckling to himself? Would only take about 5 minutes of movie time, reset the whole franchise to the end of TFA and we go again?
warch said:
What I don't get is though, if you don't like the new films, why keep going and watching them, or spending hours micro analysing for plot holes or inconsistencies? All Star Wars films are built on plot holes and inconsistencies, it's part of the style.
I agree, life is too short for that. I was utterly obsessed with Jurassic Park as a kid, it was my life, but I'll always have that regardless of what they're doing with the franchise now. I'm not expecting that lightning in a bottle to ever be caught again and that's fine. A lot of Star Wars fans haven't enjoyed a Star Wars movie since 1980 but still waste thousands of hours b
hing about it.My favourite thing that came out of the Prequel Trilogy (which is also deeply politicised) was the Star Wars Battlefront Series, which ironically was much better acted and more gripping than that series of films.
I'm surprised people weren't offended because there were too many Kiwis in the Prequels.
I'm surprised people weren't offended because there were too many Kiwis in the Prequels.
ukaskew said:
A lot of Star Wars fans haven't enjoyed a Star Wars movie since 1980 but still waste thousands of hours bhing about it.
If it had just been about it being a bad film then many would've just left it at that. Much of the problem is that it's become something of a flash point over the blunt insertion of identity politics into films and secondly that some of those behind the film deemed it appropriate to repeatedly attack the "toxic fandom" for their criticism.hing about it.See also: Star Trek Discovery.
warch said:
What I don't get is though, if you don't like the new films, why keep going and watching them, or spending hours micro analysing for plot holes or inconsistencies? All Star Wars films are built on plot holes and inconsistencies, it's part of the style.
what are the plot holes and inconsistences in Star Wars and Empire Strikes Back?jagnet said:
If it had just been about it being a bad film then many would've just left it at that. Much of the problem is that it's become something of a flash point over the blunt insertion of identity politics into films and secondly that some of those behind the film deemed it appropriate to repeatedly attack the "toxic fandom" for their criticism.
See also: Star Trek Discovery.
I'm not a STar Trek fan, but apparently ST also rips up the story just to make new stuff...which has also gone down like a lead weight with fans and pretty much ended that experiment thanks to people making it who don't understand the product.See also: Star Trek Discovery.
warch said:
Can someone specifically explain what all this stuff about gender politics in The Last Jedi is all about? I have still not worked out what some people are complaining about.
We had a great discussion on this and the future of the franchise on the Solo thread. From about page 15 onwardIn terms of the anti-male agenda (which wasn't present in ep 7). I have copied and pasted my post on the subject.
First of all you have to take it in context with a very political studio head who has proclaimed “the force is female”, note not “male and female” just female.
Then you have to look at the whole fundamental structure of the movie with its widely ridiculed slow motion chase scene, introducing concepts not previously seen in Star Wars?
This all came IMO from one fundamental decision, that Luke should not train Rey. If you go back to AFA the setup was clearly there for both Kylo and Rey and to be in training at the start of the movie. This also made logical sense as Rey was clearly raw and untrained at the end of that movie and if you wanted to setup a dichotomy between the two characters (as TLJ in fact did) it made perfect sense for both to be training at the same time, with different characters. This also allowed for proper character development of Snope. It therefore made perfect sense if you actually wanted to make a good movie. Why didn’t it happen?, well the “force is female” after all, so Rey didn’t need to be trained by any mere man. In danger of some mansplaining if that had happened. So Rey became something equivalent to Yoda with no training whatsoever.
The above is the biggest issue as it destroyed the structure and logic of the movie, but there are many other examples.
Why didn’t Admiral Gender Studies explain her plan? (another key driver of the plot), because they wanted the image of the “Powerful” woman putting down the man.
Another example is the portrayal of Luke, he had left a map to his location, but it seemed pointless in this movie due to how the writers wished to portray him.
This is before we get onto the point that male characteristics of risk taking and self-sacrifice are also deliberately denigrated.
Many movies have strong female characters and they don’t feel the need to achieve this by putting down the male characters around them.
Edited by JagLover on Friday 9th November 14:57
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