Westworld (NO SPOILERS)

[Scabutz]

Halb said:

I'm curious as to Ed...he's past his prime yet can roll around with the best after multiple hits...and now he is shot plenty times.
Earlier some soft get ruined his holiday be saying 'he (Ed) saved his wife' or something?
Delos are clearly a top end company. Has Ed been upgraded? SUperior muscles, organs, replacements?

He's a host, or his scenes are in a simulation? No one else in any of the other storylines has mentioned him. Surely Hale would be concerend where the CEO is if she knew he was in the park? Even if she hated him and wanted him dead she would show some interest of his whereabouts?

I have nicked this theory from Reddit.

[FourWheelDrift]

Just watched the preview for the next episode.

Events from the Ghost nation perspective and more on the multiple Bernards, the one at the dinner & murder looks to have been killed near Ford's body

[pidsy]

FourWheelDrift said:

Just watched the preview for the next episode.

Events from the Ghost nation perspective and more on the multiple Bernards, the one at the dinner & murder looks to have been killed near Ford's body

Seen it as well. It still doesn’t make anything clearer - in fact adding another dimension to the story. With 2 episodes left after next weeks, it’s going to go down to the wire.

[Halb]

Scabutz said:

He's a host, or his scenes are in a simulation? No one else in any of the other storylines has mentioned him. Surely Hale would be concerend where the CEO is if she knew he was in the park? Even if she hated him and wanted him dead she would show some interest of his whereabouts?

I have nicked this theory from Reddit.

Hale has turned up in Ed's story, but she could be an illusion

Ed has been referred to by short THor when they switched the nitro on, 'that guy gets whatever he wants.'

[Oakey]

Scabutz said:

He's a host, or his scenes are in a simulation? No one else in any of the other storylines has mentioned him. Surely Hale would be concerend where the CEO is if she knew he was in the park? Even if she hated him and wanted him dead she would show some interest of his whereabouts?

I have nicked this theory from Reddit.

William and Hale have interacted in previous episodes though? And he was at the party at the end of season 1. Unless he died there and now he's living inside the system

[Flip Martian]

Oakey said:

Flip Martian said:

I did find it rather odd that the special forces leader with the bad Irish accent managed to hold his own against Teddy for longer than you'd think likely, given Teddy's far superior strength (and the fact he's dialled up to 11).

What, all of 10 seconds instead of 3?

I think 3 would have been generous.

[Durzel]

trooperiziz said:

I feel like all the time line shenanigans has made the show lose any sense of engagement or feeling of jeopardy for the characters.

When something dramatic happens to someone, my first thought is never excitement or empathy, it's always "is this new information for them, or for me? How does it impact what I have seen already?"
Rather than being taken on a journey with the characters and feeling part of the story, I always feel like I'm watching vignettes and trying to piece them together, which is fun to do but never feels like anything more than a puzzle to be solved.

I kinda liken it to watching a dvd with the directors commentary on. Its interesting to do but stops you watching the film as a movie, its now about the film itself rather than about the story.

Eruditely put. Sums up my thoughts perfectly. Couldn't put my finger on why I wasn't gelling with this season.

It's starting to feel a bit impenetrable to me, like surface level mystery for mystery sake. I was absorbed by the whole "hosts are the control, the real prize is simulation of the guests", but yet another sortof reset on where Bernard thought he was isn't captivating.

It is starting to feel to me like McGuffin: The Show. Last season it was The Maze, this season it's The Valley. By the finale, since season 3 is already green lit, I expect Ford or someone will tell Bernard or Dolores that "the valley isn't your goal, you need to look deeper" or something.

Was nice to see Hopkins again, and good lord did you see Talulah Riley, but the rest.. hmm

[Rick_1138]

My wife has given up on this now, shes a bit fed up that not a huge amount is going on when lot sis going on and every episode is wholesale kill everyone, she just doesn't like that as its been like that for 7 episodes. I am a little inclined to agree.

I am starting to fall out with the criss cross of story\timelines as its starting to feel a bit like "Youll never guess where we are going!" well no I wont but do YOU know where you are taking us!

I cannot get on with the Dolores story now, she just comes across as a massive psychotic sociopath and its a tad boring if im honest.

The Bernard\Ford bit was good in this episode though.

The stuff i really cant get on with as it flops about in terms of what way it wants it is the ability of the Delos special forces\security, they can either be as good a shot as the American Sniper or as bad as stormtroopers, depending on how they want fights to go. The guy who went up to Talulah Riley in the cradle really pissed me off, these guys will have been briefed on the situ, know not to fk about and should have shot her on sight, not try to get his end away with something he clearly knows is dangerous and will try and kill him, i fell out with the wife as she thought in real life you get idiots and soldiers are no exception. I get that, but i just feel the human military guys are a bit too stupid given the dire situation they've been in for at least a couple of days by now.

I really hope this doesn't get to a point where its starting to stretch out for more seasons, as ill be out if that starts.

with 3 episodes to go it has room to still be the excellent telly i found the first season to be.

[FourWheelDrift]

Rick_1138 said:

My wife has given up on this now, shes a bit fed up that not a huge amount is going on when lot sis going on and every episode is wholesale kill everyone, she just doesn't like that as its been like that for 7 episodes. I am a little inclined to agree.

But that is what happens in Crichton's original West World film, once the machines rebel they kill everybody.

[Rick_1138]

FourWheelDrift said:

But that is what happens in Crichton's original West World film, once the machines rebel they kill everybody.

I get that, however the original the guests were killed because the hosts just went insane\no filters.

Here they've turned it into a so far 7 hour slog of people being, shot, stabbed, beheaded, tortured, flayed, skulls cut open, nailed to a bed etc, with none of it really being plot driven, its just become white noise.

A case in point was the Japanese themed episode and a half, it felt a lot like "Samurai are cool and folk seemed to like the tease from Season 1 on twitter, put more of that in" so we ended up with 1.5 hours of Japanese themed hosts cutting each other to bits, just because, and at the end, they didn't follow them further.

My wife said in most stuff you get the odd bit of levity to break it up, but this is just constant dark, death and bloody. If the samurai bit had maybe had a couple of deaths then them and the 3 new Japanese hosts joining them but more of a little side story it would have been better than, trying to shoehorn in ninjas, samurai army and a st ton of samurai sword gore.

I am enjoying it but its getting a bit wibbly wobbly timey wimey, however it gets the benefit of the doubt till the end.

[Halb]

Billions also plays fast and loose with not giving you the full info from a scene, I hate that, thankfully they've not done it for a while, not since the doc agreed to testify I think

[Oakey]

William exists in whatever timeline Maeve was in when the security guards show up in the buggy and shoot her only for whats his face to tell them to stop. We then see William in shot as they drive off.

[Camelot1971]

Rick_1138 said:

The guy who went up to Talulah Riley in the cradle really pissed me off, these guys will have been briefed on the situ, know not to fk about and should have shot her on sight, not try to get his end away with something he clearly knows is dangerous and will try and kill him, i fell out with the wife as she thought in real life you get idiots and soldiers are no exception.

I thought that too but then she is a seductress so perhaps she has an ability to overtly influence those who come into contact with her. The special forces guy did seem mesmerised with her (who wouldn't!) and at the beginning he just assumed she was too injured to cause him harm.

Overall though, I love the show. It makes you think, it's pretty original and you have to pay attention when you watch it. I really like the fact it's worth watching a few times to see stuff you missed. So many dramas are one watch wonders.

[Rick_1138]

Camelot1971 said:

Rick_1138 said:

The guy who went up to Talulah Riley in the cradle really pissed me off, these guys will have been briefed on the situ, know not to fk about and should have shot her on sight, not try to get his end away with something he clearly knows is dangerous and will try and kill him, i fell out with the wife as she thought in real life you get idiots and soldiers are no exception.

I thought that too but then she is a seductress so perhaps she has an ability to overtly influence those who come into contact with her. The special forces guy did seem mesmerised with her (who wouldn't!) and at the beginning he just assumed she was too injured to cause him harm.

Overall though, I love the show. It makes you think, it's pretty original and you have to pay attention when you watch it. I really like the fact it's worth watching a few times to see stuff you missed. So many dramas are one watch wonders.

Yeah thats fair, and i know that if its watched as a whole rather than over the 10 weeks it will probably be much better so im looking forward to watcing it all on blu ray when its out.

[Jonesy23]

I wonder if they think they're being clever making Ford into both a 'ghost in the machine' - both as a dead man hiding in the computer, and in the mind-body dualism sense - and also a 'Deus ex Machina' - again both as a literal string pulling god from the machine, and as a suddenly appearing plot solving device?

Slightly heavy handed version of the trope though, unless they suddenly pull something out of the bag like 'Ford' not actually being a proper copy but something else altogether. The new version seems a lot darker than the live one was.

[Scabutz]

Oakey said:

William exists in whatever timeline Maeve was in when the security guards show up in the buggy and shoot her only for whats his face to tell them to stop. We then see William in shot as they drive off.

I think that's the point. He is there, about to be shot by Lawrence. The buggys turn up shot Lawrence and Maeve, then speed off and leave him for dead. Its like they never saw him.

[Watchman]

I love the series. I especially love the fact that I have to work at understanding it, and that subsequent viewings reveal new details I missed previously.

That said, some of the motivations are a little amiss. Dolores’ revenge streak seems inconsistent with her old personality, even when you factor-in her mixing the Wyatt personality with her own. Her current “kill everyone” frown detracts from what was previously a very interesting personality.

I also like that there are several objectives for the park, driven by different people. The creation of AI and the capturing of the immortal soul could work both together and against one another - technologically, it’s really quite clever. But are there more objectives? William’s isn’t yet clear. Then you have the personal objectives of individual characters. Where does Dolores want to get to? Maeve too? What is their end game and what does “happy ever after” look like for them and William, and Bernard, and Ford (whatever he is now), and even Charlotte?

The samurai scene served the story to force Maeve’s evolution. She couldn’t communicate with verbal English so presumably had to access a language centre, and then to communicate with the earless guards she had to utilise the hive network.

It must take the writers a long long time to come up with so many nuances.

[Halb]

Scabutz said:

I think that's the point. He is there, about to be shot by Lawrence. The buggys turn up shot Lawrence and Maeve, then speed off and leave him for dead. Its like they never saw him.

Therre'd be no reason to get him, anyone who doesn't know who he is would think he's a host.

[Oakey]

Scabutz said:

I think that's the point. He is there, about to be shot by Lawrence. The buggys turn up shot Lawrence and Maeve, then speed off and leave him for dead. Its like they never saw him.

Because he somehow scurried off during the ensuing chaos between Lawrence getting shot and the Ghost Nation taking Maeve's daughter and her getting shot if you watch the scene closely. After Maeve, Sizemore and the guard leave it would be terrible storytelling to then show us a character (William) if he didn't actually exist. Who's point of view would that be from although the guy in the back of the second vehicle does actually appear to look in Williams direction.

[FourWheelDrift]

Yep, he was out of sight to their left as they arrived and their attention was directed to their right at Maeve and more so when Sizemore intervened.