Bomber Boys

[Simpo Two]

Eric Mc said:

I still have the original Radio Times covering the week it was first shown.

Paymaster-Colonel Eric Mc, Anorak and Bar

[Zaxxon]

croyde said:

You can watch Dad's Army and think what an easy life but back then these guys really thought that they would be facing battle hardened Nazis at any moment.

There are some quite scary accounts of what these guys were prepared for. How even though they were underequipped, and lacked full training, they would have made the enemy pay dearly for every mile of advance. Dad's Army makes them out to be bumbling fools which is a shame as they were preparred to give everything to defend the country.

[Eric Mc]

It was shown in an edited form together with an edited down version of the famous original Memphis Belle wartime documentary, which had not been shown on TV up to that point. There was also a BBC documentary where crews of both RAF heavies and B-17s (including the Captain of Memphis Belle and Iliffe Cozens).

It was great TV and wonder if any of it remains in the BBC archives.

[undred orse]

Eric Mc said:

It was shown in an edited form together with an edited down version of the famous original Memphis Belle wartime documentary, which had not been shown on TV up to that point. There was also a BBC documentary where crews of both RAF heavies and B-17s (including the Captain of Memphis Belle and Iliffe Cozens).

It was great TV and wonder if any of it remains in the BBC archives.

Just the sort of historical record that should be shown more often to ensure that the sacrifices made and bravery shown by all concerned are known about and given the respect due.

I caught a great documentary on one of the sky channels in the summer on the day during the Battle of Britain that they said was the tipping point - the account of Churchill being told that there were no forces in reserve and everthing was committed hit home how close it was and what strength of character there was in everyone involved.

[Eric Mc]

There was no real tipping point in the BoB. It was a gradual realisation by the Luftwaffe that they were failing in their objective.

But that's a different thread really.

[vonuber]

Eric Mc said:

There was no real tipping point in the BoB. It was a gradual realisation by the Luftwaffe that they were failing in their objective.

But that's a different thread really.

Yeah, whole host of reasons from the Luftwaffe operating at the limit of their range, RAF early earning and radar superiority etc.

But that wasn't the tipping point. Dunkirk was, and von Runstedts order to halt the Panzers. If he hadn't; then we might be speaking German.. or possibly Russian. But most likely German.

[Simpo Two]

Zaxxon said:

There are some quite scary accounts of what these guys were prepared for. How even though they were underequipped, and lacked full training, they would have made the enemy pay dearly for every mile of advance. Dad's Army makes them out to be bumbling fools which is a shame as they were preparred to give everything to defend the country.

They may have been, but considering that they were still amateurs and likely to be facing the finest troops the Wehrmacht and SS could muster, I don't think a few roadside bombs and rifle shots from pill boxes would have held them up for very long. It would just be an annoyance factor, and if the Germans did here what they did in France, attacks would be revenged by rounding up and shooting a few dozen villagers. Not a nice position.

Eric Mc said:

There was no real tipping point in the BoB. It was a gradual realisation by the Luftwaffe that they were failing in their objective.

I think he meant a tipping point in the war, ie possibly the first German 'defeat'. More a tipping point in moral perhaps. As for the BoB itself, Goering switching from airfields to cities allowed the RAF to scrape itself back together again.

We owe the English Channel a lot.

OT again but it's all good stuff.

[Zaxxon]

vonuber said:

and von Runstedts order to halt the Panzers. If he hadn't; then we might be speaking German.. or possibly Russian. But most likely German.

Is there any information on this. The few theories and writings I have read have mentioned that the BofB would have seriously harmed the Luftwaffe if it had gone on longer as they were losing pilots at an alarming rate whereas the RAF was increasing it's capacity to fight. Also that Operation Sealion would have been ripped apart by the Royal Navy who at the time was one of the most potent naval forces in the world (they would also have enjoyed reasonab;le air cover). And that even if the Germans had managed to get a toe hold on the mainland, there was a reasonable sized and motivated army and all manner of defence plans and nasty tricks to play with.

I stand to be corrected but the UK was not totally reliant on it's Airforce. However thanks to the aircraft designers, manufacturors and Royal Air Force / Fleet Air Arm, we never had to find out.

[vonuber]

Zaxxon said:

Is there any information on this. The few theories and writings I have read have mentioned that the BofB would have seriously harmed the Luftwaffe if it had gone on longer as they were losing pilots at an alarming rate whereas the RAF was increasing it's capacity to fight. Also that Operation Sealion would have been ripped apart by the Royal Navy who at the time was one of the most potent naval forces in the world (they would also have enjoyed reasonab;le air cover). And that even if the Germans had managed to get a toe hold on the mainland, there was a reasonable sized and motivated army and all manner of defence plans and nasty tricks to play with.

I stand to be corrected but the UK was not totally reliant on it's Airforce. However thanks to the aircraft designers, manufacturors and Royal Air Force / Fleet Air Arm, we never had to find out.

Oh yes, Sealion was not likely to succeed. But if the Panzers ahd not been halted, and the BEF encircled in Dunkirk (which it was easier to do than not do, if you get what I mean) then with all those 350,00+ who were evacuated as POWs..
those same soldiers who would fight in North Africa, Italy and Normandy would not have been there. Most of the UK's Army would be POWs. That would be a different kettle of fish. What chance them accepting the peace feelers Adolf was already putting out? Who will ever know?

[croyde]

vonuber said:

Yeah, whole host of reasons from the Luftwaffe operating at the limit of their range, RAF early earning and radar superiority etc.

But that wasn't the tipping point. Dunkirk was, and von Runstedts order to halt the Panzers. If he hadn't; then we might be speaking German.. or possibly Russian and owning football clubs and oil companies. But most likely German.

ETA

[Zaxxon]

vonuber said:

Oh yes, Sealion was not likely to succeed. But if the Panzers ahd not been halted, and the BEF encircled in Dunkirk (which it was easier to do than not do, if you get what I mean) then with all those 350,00+ who were evacuated as POWs..
those same soldiers who would fight in North Africa, Italy and Normandy would not have been there. Most of the UK's Army would be POWs. That would be a different kettle of fish. What chance them accepting the peace feelers Adolf was already putting out? Who will ever know?

Ah, yes, sorry, I got the wrong end of the stick, I thought you were referring to post Dunkirk not during. My mistake.

[jmorgan]

croyde said:

jmorgan said:

Still not seen it. iplayer crashes for me.

Utmost respect either way. I was reading that quite a few reporters flew on raids..

In response to the thread about the people at home not knowing what was going on, this is so true.

Now every soldier, tank, fighter plane and even missile has a TV camera whilst back at the D Day landings one famous newsman went over with the soldiers and hit the beach amid a hail of gun fire took pictures on one roll of film then managed to get back into a boat returning to England then got the train from Dover to London.

He handed the film to a technician who developed the negative but got so excited at the thought of the footage he put the negative dryer on too high and they all got burnt apart from 2 blurry pics.

Bit different from using your iPhone.

You can watch Dad's Army and think what an easy life but back then these guys really thought that they would be facing battle hardened Nazis at any moment.

Got an interesting book and its from the reporters that landed with the forces. They were then, as we term them now, embedded. It is called "War Report" and it is from D day to VE day.

[Zaxxon]

Another documentry about a brave group of men.
10pm this Thursday on the Yesterday Channel (537)

Artic Convoys

[Eric Mc]

Did you mean "Arctic"?

Arctic




Artic

Edited by Eric Mc on Tuesday 14th February 21:08