Westworld (NO SPOILERS)

[Halb]

Doofus said:

Thank you

I thought Battlestar Galactica was a children's programme, but I've seen a fair few mentions of it on here...

The original was family entertainment, like Star Wars, the reboot was more geared up towards gritty drama, more like Sopranos. Not that something labelled as 'children's programme can't be thought provoking or touch on complex issues. Stories/fairytales were started out as ways to pass info.

Watchman said:

I loved BSG in general too but it wasn't mapped ou
t from the start.

I never said mapped. I typed,

Halb said:

BSG, you(I meant they) know where the end point is, sure stuff can change over time, and how the end point affects us can change, but they knew where it ends.

they knew the end point, they had milestones, in hitting their milestones they had windows of opportunity to decide what to do at the time, that's how shows like BSg/GoT work. The showrunners always knew the endpoint was Earth, as did the viewer, that's oneof the smart ways to use a reboot. They did a clever thing with Earth...and I'm not gonna go into detail because there are posters here who are interested in watching it for the first time, it'd be a shame to ruin it for them, the wondows they leave themselves are how to handle the story as it moves forward, and the execution of the end point is usually always malleable.

[LoonyTunes]

Flip Martian said:

The makers have already explained (interview linked in here the other day) that that scene at the end was from the far future, not directly related to the rest of the action in S2.

In that case isn't William (aka MiB) definitely a robot as he hasn't changed at all during the intervening years. And he's wearing the same clothes.

Also William was lead into the 'interview' clutching his blood-soaked bandaged right hand - and that had only recently happened.

[Halb]

LoonyTunes said:

In that case isn't William (aka MiB) definitely a robot as he hasn't changed at all during the intervening years. And he's wearing the same clothes.

Also William was lead into the 'interview' clutching his blood-soaked bandaged right hand - and that had only recently happened.

I think because it ties into 'free will.' William, and by that extension, any human, will always make the same choices, that's our code, so William will always choose to kill his dottir, and he will always choose to betray Delores, and so end up with no fingers. One of the chats 'twixt ...I think Bernard and Delores goes on about how only hosts can truly make changes, unlike humans who are prisoners to their code.

[FourWheelDrift]

LoonyTunes said:

Also William was lead into the 'interview' clutching his blood-soaked bandaged right hand - and that had only recently happened.

On that play-through, as on all play-throughs because it happened for real one time.

[Steve vRS]

I’m all for grown up, complex drama but S2 is just unfathomable. S1 was a challenge but it fall into place at the end.

When you need to read up on a show just to follow the plot, that’s when it stops being fun.

[Flip Martian]

LoonyTunes said:

In that case isn't William (aka MiB) definitely a robot as he hasn't changed at all during the intervening years. And he's wearing the same clothes.

Also William was lead into the 'interview' clutching his blood-soaked bandaged right hand - and that had only recently happened.

The latter was due to him making the same choices each time he went through the testing.

The former - no, the creators say he was human in S1 and 2, except at the very end, after the credits, which was in the far future. Although it flummoxed me - why, if you were being made immortal in robot form, would you be made as a bloke in his late 60s?! Although they did the same with Delos, I suppose - replicate him just before he died.

[Aphex]

Flip Martian said:

why, if you were being made immortal in robot form, would you be made as a bloke in his late 60s?! Although they did the same with Delos, I suppose - replicate him just before he died.

Maybe he didn't want to be a human-host hybrid, perhaps this is the eternal hell someone thinks he deserves

[Flip Martian]

Aphex said:

Maybe he didn't want to be a human-host hybrid, perhaps this is the eternal hell someone thinks he deserves

Could be! Although if that theory gets popular on the internet you can bet that will never be the storyline, when they decide to return to it!

[ashleyman]

Aphex said:

Flip Martian said:

why, if you were being made immortal in robot form, would you be made as a bloke in his late 60s?! Although they did the same with Delos, I suppose - replicate him just before he died.

Maybe he didn't want to be a human-host hybrid, perhaps this is the eternal hell someone thinks he deserves

Isn't it because if they made him come back young then he'd know he was a host and it would interfere with his fidelity?

[Flip Martian]

ashleyman said:

Isn't it because if they made him come back young then he'd know he was a host and it would interfere with his fidelity?

Could be I suppose. Which I guess would mean you could only replicate someone as they were at their time of death. Which rather sucks. If I was old, wheezy and disabled I think I'd rather just be allowed to die.

[gregs656]

Halb said:

I tink the problem is, it wasn't mapped out.

That's the thing though - it was!

James Marsden said:

It wasn't about getting the first 10 (episodes) done, it was about mapping out what the next 5 or 6 years are going to be. We wanted everything in line so that when the very last episode airs and we have our show finale, five or seven years down the line, we knew how it was going to end the first season -- that's the way Jonah and J.J. Abrams operate. They're making sure all the ducks are in the row.

I just think they just cocked it up with this season and misunderstood what the general fans enjoyed about S1.

[Flumpo]

Flip Martian said:

ashleyman said:

Isn't it because if they made him come back young then he'd know he was a host and it would interfere with his fidelity?

Could be I suppose. Which I guess would mean you could only replicate someone as they were at their time of death. Which rather sucks. If I was old, wheezy and disabled I think I'd rather just be allowed to die.

None of that bit added up, why would he be a host with a limp and mangled fingers.

They will probably say that’s actually him inside the computer sim, alive but inside a host, in the future having a dream.

We will then find out it was shot in 24fps rather than 25 and if we had run the video through a diognostics system we would have picked up on it. That was the clue staring us in the face. Then we will all laugh at how clever Nolan is and how stupid we are.

[rustyuk]

Well I thought it was a great ending and would be happy if that was full closure.

[trooperiziz]

gregs656 said:

I just think they just cocked it up with this season and misunderstood what the general fans enjoyed about S1.

They got pissed off that they weren't cleverer than the fans last season, and it people worked it out before they got to amaze them with their cleverness.
This time they made sure nobody would work it all out beforehand. I'm sure they are very happy that they think they are the cleverest again...

[Halb]

a brilliant dissection of ep 10
points out rather a lot of inconstancies

Westworld Watch Season 2 Episode 10

https://youtu.be/dZGPcUq4Hts
25mins

[Flip Martian]

Halb said:

a brilliant dissection of ep 10
points out rather a lot of inconstancies

Westworld Watch Season 2 Episode 10

https://youtu.be/dZGPcUq4Hts
25mins

Just watched that. The creators should be made to watch this and explain away every single discrepancy and retcon in front of an audience of cynical viewers.

And then stoned.

[Halb]

Flip Martian said:

Just watched that. The creators should be made to watch this and explain away every single discrepancy and retcon in front of an audience of cynical viewers.

And then stoned.

I just don't get how shoddy the continuity is, I mean the opening scene on the beach...all the stuff, ffs!

[chris watton]

Flip Martian said:

Halb said:

a brilliant dissection of ep 10
points out rather a lot of inconstancies

Westworld Watch Season 2 Episode 10

https://youtu.be/dZGPcUq4Hts
25mins

Just watched that. The creators should be made to watch this and explain away every single discrepancy and retcon in front of an audience of cynical viewers.

And then stoned.

It now seems par for the course to be utterly disappointed by seasons of programmes and films I really look forward to and used to love.

I am now dreading the final season of Game of Thrones. It seems these people who make these things aren't half as smart as they like to make us believe.

[Aphex]

Halb said:

a brilliant dissection of ep 10
points out rather a lot of inconstancies

Westworld Watch Season 2 Episode 10

https://youtu.be/dZGPcUq4Hts
25mins

How can you put up with the voices he seems about as nit picking as most pistonheaders I'll give the video a go later

[Halb]

Aphex said:

How can you put up with the voices he seems about as nit picking as most pistonheaders I'll give the video a go later

yeah, it's a style he got into for his 'silly' reviews of GoT, which he would then follow up with serious/straight reviews. I think he just likes silly voices, he does do a serious chat overview of the ww though. He has a seriously analytical mind, so his stuff is just so informative on stuff, unlike just about every other 'reviewer' out there which offers less insight than this thread.
subconsciously, we as viewers are feeling let down by WW, I think PJ's vids help us understand this by pointing out consciously the stuff that simply doesn't make sense, that a casual viewer picks up on subconsciously. Sloppy programme making makes for sloppy enjoyment.