Harry's Garage - YouTube
Discussion
M4SER said:
Some background to the i4 M50 review.
1) I didn't request it, BMW offered it to me while I waited for the M5 CS to arrive. I hadn't intended to review it either but when I realised how flawed it was, I felt compelled to go public with my thoughts on this car.
2) I don't hate EVs, whatever some commentators might think but my overriding rule when reviewing any car is "would I buy one?" and in the case of this i4 it was most definitely no.
3) The benchmark I used for the i4 M50 review was the Tesla 3, which offers near identical performance, twice the range, a super-charger network that's the best out there, 400kg less weight, some interesting and novel features absent from the BMW and all this for 40% less cost. That makes the i4 M50 look distinctly average in my book.
4) JC once told me you must occasionally test some one-star cars, otherwise people don't take any notice when you stumble across a five-star car. Think of this i4 M50 review as being my first one-star car of 2022..
5) The i3 and i8 are really interesting cars but their lack of sales success has seemingly scared BMW to never doing such innovative cars again and that's why we've ended up with safer, more conventional looking EVs from BMW, like this i4. I think that's a real shame, especially when BMW likes to be perceived as an engineering led company, which is certainly not the case here.
The really good news is normal service will resume this Sunday, with a 47-minute road-trip special to Spain in my Porsche 930 turbo s.
One star Harry? Really that bad or more a reaction to BMW daring to call it a proper M car when it should really be considered more of an EV M440i?1) I didn't request it, BMW offered it to me while I waited for the M5 CS to arrive. I hadn't intended to review it either but when I realised how flawed it was, I felt compelled to go public with my thoughts on this car.
2) I don't hate EVs, whatever some commentators might think but my overriding rule when reviewing any car is "would I buy one?" and in the case of this i4 it was most definitely no.
3) The benchmark I used for the i4 M50 review was the Tesla 3, which offers near identical performance, twice the range, a super-charger network that's the best out there, 400kg less weight, some interesting and novel features absent from the BMW and all this for 40% less cost. That makes the i4 M50 look distinctly average in my book.
4) JC once told me you must occasionally test some one-star cars, otherwise people don't take any notice when you stumble across a five-star car. Think of this i4 M50 review as being my first one-star car of 2022..
5) The i3 and i8 are really interesting cars but their lack of sales success has seemingly scared BMW to never doing such innovative cars again and that's why we've ended up with safer, more conventional looking EVs from BMW, like this i4. I think that's a real shame, especially when BMW likes to be perceived as an engineering led company, which is certainly not the case here.
The really good news is normal service will resume this Sunday, with a 47-minute road-trip special to Spain in my Porsche 930 turbo s.
The car you got had for review was the usual every box ticked and then some press car, it's actually a £64k car in standard trim versus the Tesla at £60k, which with anything other than white exterior and black interior will cost you £62k so very little in it. You also won't get twice the range out of the Tesla, we never got anywhere near the claimed range in 2 years with ours, 250 miles was about the limit.
SWoll said:
<clip> Tesla, we never got anywhere near the claimed range in 2 years with ours, 250 miles was about the limit.
You see this what makes me laugh about EVs. This morning I drove to Southend to collect some batteries for my Lagonda, a round trip of 190 miles. Having set off early, I was on my way back by 10:30 and only stopped for 5 mins to get a coffee and flap jack in a BP garage. Home by 11:30, job done. So in a Tessa I'd be on the M3 looking at the juice gauge thinking 's
t I wish I'd charged up somewhere' but that would have meant nursing a coffee somewhere for half an hour and not nipping into a basic garage on the A127. 
SWoll said:
M4SER said:
Some background to the i4 M50 review.
1) I didn't request it, BMW offered it to me while I waited for the M5 CS to arrive. I hadn't intended to review it either but when I realised how flawed it was, I felt compelled to go public with my thoughts on this car.
2) I don't hate EVs, whatever some commentators might think but my overriding rule when reviewing any car is "would I buy one?" and in the case of this i4 it was most definitely no.
3) The benchmark I used for the i4 M50 review was the Tesla 3, which offers near identical performance, twice the range, a super-charger network that's the best out there, 400kg less weight, some interesting and novel features absent from the BMW and all this for 40% less cost. That makes the i4 M50 look distinctly average in my book.
4) JC once told me you must occasionally test some one-star cars, otherwise people don't take any notice when you stumble across a five-star car. Think of this i4 M50 review as being my first one-star car of 2022..
5) The i3 and i8 are really interesting cars but their lack of sales success has seemingly scared BMW to never doing such innovative cars again and that's why we've ended up with safer, more conventional looking EVs from BMW, like this i4. I think that's a real shame, especially when BMW likes to be perceived as an engineering led company, which is certainly not the case here.
The really good news is normal service will resume this Sunday, with a 47-minute road-trip special to Spain in my Porsche 930 turbo s.
One star Harry? Really that bad or more a reaction to BMW daring to call it a proper M car when it should really be considered more of an EV M440i?1) I didn't request it, BMW offered it to me while I waited for the M5 CS to arrive. I hadn't intended to review it either but when I realised how flawed it was, I felt compelled to go public with my thoughts on this car.
2) I don't hate EVs, whatever some commentators might think but my overriding rule when reviewing any car is "would I buy one?" and in the case of this i4 it was most definitely no.
3) The benchmark I used for the i4 M50 review was the Tesla 3, which offers near identical performance, twice the range, a super-charger network that's the best out there, 400kg less weight, some interesting and novel features absent from the BMW and all this for 40% less cost. That makes the i4 M50 look distinctly average in my book.
4) JC once told me you must occasionally test some one-star cars, otherwise people don't take any notice when you stumble across a five-star car. Think of this i4 M50 review as being my first one-star car of 2022..
5) The i3 and i8 are really interesting cars but their lack of sales success has seemingly scared BMW to never doing such innovative cars again and that's why we've ended up with safer, more conventional looking EVs from BMW, like this i4. I think that's a real shame, especially when BMW likes to be perceived as an engineering led company, which is certainly not the case here.
The really good news is normal service will resume this Sunday, with a 47-minute road-trip special to Spain in my Porsche 930 turbo s.
I also really love BMW M cars(when they have an ICE), but BMW don't seem to be able to make an electric(or hybrid) car very interesting to drive for some reason though for me in comparison.
F20CN16 said:
250 minus 190 is 60. What’s the issue?
Quite. A strange example to give.cerb4.5lee said:
I completely get where Harry is coming from for sure. I've had 8 BMW's now(so I'm clearly a fan), however when I test drove the X5 45e it didn't feel anything like a BMW for me.
I also really love BMW M cars(when they have an ICE), but BMW don't seem to be able to make an electric(or hybrid) car very interesting to drive for some reason though for me in comparison.
But 1 star? That suggests a car that is garbage in every way.I also really love BMW M cars(when they have an ICE), but BMW don't seem to be able to make an electric(or hybrid) car very interesting to drive for some reason though for me in comparison.
Out of interest have you driven a current non hybrid X5 as don't imagine it would feel all that different TBH? And they did produce the i3 and i8 as Harry mentions so a good to drive EV/Hybrid clearly isn't beyond them, they've just gone the easy route for now with the i4 using a shared platform which always results in very heavy EV's.
SWoll said:
But 1 star? That suggests a car that is garbage in every way.
Star ratings can only be relative to other cars on the market at the time, what the car is designed for, what it is meant to be trying to do etc. It can’t be an absolute thing as arguably NO car is ‘garbage’ these days, so all you end up with is ALL cars being 4/5 stars rendering the start rating completely useless/redundant (See Evo, just about everything is 4/5, maybe the odd 3 star, so really it’s a “3 star” rating system).
So as an M car, it possibly is “garbage”/1 star. As a family saloon type thing, if it was half the price etc., a case could be made for it. But you can say that about any car. At the end of the day it’s NOT a cheap car, it’s NOT a regular BMW runabout etc. it’s “meant” to be an “M” car so sounds like it was judged accordingly.
I watched the i4 video last night, having first avoided it at the weekend when I saw what car was on there.
That noise that BMW have picked for the drivetrain in Sport mode just sounds odd...
I actually quite like the look of it, the new uber-grille front end is somehow growing on me, the boot looks good enough for a decent trip away, and the interior looks like a nice place to be. But that's not what you buy an M for.
The range is also poor - though what Harry said about motorway speed driving eating into the range. That appears to be the case with all EV's, Tesla's included. I guess that's why whenever you see a Tesla it's on the inside lane of the motorway doing 60mph - if they drive normally they just kill the range.
That noise that BMW have picked for the drivetrain in Sport mode just sounds odd...
I actually quite like the look of it, the new uber-grille front end is somehow growing on me, the boot looks good enough for a decent trip away, and the interior looks like a nice place to be. But that's not what you buy an M for.
The range is also poor - though what Harry said about motorway speed driving eating into the range. That appears to be the case with all EV's, Tesla's included. I guess that's why whenever you see a Tesla it's on the inside lane of the motorway doing 60mph - if they drive normally they just kill the range.
SydneyBridge said:
The i3 and i8 are excellent cars, just too soon.. the world was not ready
Saw an i8 earlier and still looks superb
I'd agree. Personally, I think they are classic cars in the waiting. Even the weird looking i3. Saw an i8 earlier and still looks superb
What they gave BMW was bucket loads of data to use going forward.
I get BMW's reason for their EV design with the I4. If you look at the new 7 series, all three power trains are to be assembled on the same production line. That's the big efficiency for a mid level manufacturer.
Would I compare this against the Tesla? Maybe not. You get the feeling that this is aimed at the fleet market. That it is box ticking for corporates. Most fleets avoid Tesla's because of all the maintenance and repair issues, it's only very recently that big employers have risked adding Tesla to their lists and in most cases the trade off has been to get the more overt publicity and brand PR. Other major employers and users of fleet cars have opted to remain with manufacturers with national service centres and much lower reputational risk. John Lewis for example had significant concerns over being seen to align their business values with those of Musk.
I think this current BMW range is targeting mainly the fleet market and presenting itself as a safe pair of hands and probably seeing itself competing more against the Audi products along with the fact that for every individual who craves a Tesla product there are those who are repulsed by the company regardless of the product.
As a product it comes across as a prudent hedge on the rapidly changing landscape over the next decade that ticks enough boxes as opposed to a wild punt, going all in on something that is also very likely to be completely different in a decade's time.
Meanwhile, there is also something else to consider which is that an extremely large number of consumers genuinely don't care about MPG or range in monetary terms anywhere near as much as others. I suspect that a lot of the i3 data intimated that not all consumers were driving endlessly across countries day in day out or hypermiling like Miss Daisy every time they drove.
I also suspect that most fleet drivers, most drivers in general, don't care at all about driving dynamics anywhere near as much as branding.
Dracoro said:
Star ratings can only be relative to other cars on the market at the time, what the car is designed for, what it is meant to be trying to do etc.
It can’t be an absolute thing as arguably NO car is ‘garbage’ these days, so all you end up with is ALL cars being 4/5 stars rendering the start rating completely useless/redundant (See Evo, just about everything is 4/5, maybe the odd 3 star, so really it’s a “3 star” rating system).
So as an M car, it possibly is “garbage”/1 star. As a family saloon type thing, if it was half the price etc., a case could be made for it. But you can say that about any car. At the end of the day it’s NOT a cheap car, it’s NOT a regular BMW runabout etc. it’s “meant” to be an “M” car so sounds like it was judged accordingly.
I think the issue here is the dilution of the M brand with the M lite models. At £15k or so cheaper than an M4 I've personally always considered the M50 an m-lite in the same vein as the M240/M440 rather than a full on M car. And why would you expect to pay £32k for a 540hp, well equipped, German EV? You won't get an electric mini for that.. It can’t be an absolute thing as arguably NO car is ‘garbage’ these days, so all you end up with is ALL cars being 4/5 stars rendering the start rating completely useless/redundant (See Evo, just about everything is 4/5, maybe the odd 3 star, so really it’s a “3 star” rating system).
So as an M car, it possibly is “garbage”/1 star. As a family saloon type thing, if it was half the price etc., a case could be made for it. But you can say that about any car. At the end of the day it’s NOT a cheap car, it’s NOT a regular BMW runabout etc. it’s “meant” to be an “M” car so sounds like it was judged accordingly.
Dr Interceptor said:
The range is also poor - though what Harry said about motorway speed driving eating into the range. That appears to be the case with all EV's, Tesla's included. I guess that's why whenever you see a Tesla it's on the inside lane of the motorway doing 60mph - if they drive normally they just kill the range.
The Model 3 P will do 200+ miles at standard motorway speeds as did it numerous times, but agree that it does push people into hyper miling far more than ICE. Regarding the the M50, it's far more efficient if you stick with the standard 19" wheels and don't upgrade the the very wide 20's that also add a rear arch extension.Edited by SWoll on Thursday 21st April 09:28
Edited by SWoll on Thursday 21st April 09:32
SWoll said:
Out of interest have you driven a current non hybrid X5 as don't imagine it would feel all that different TBH?
I haven't driven the current generation X5 with an ICE, but I have driven a 2016 model X5 40d and I really liked that. I was just shocked at how different the X5 45e was to drive, and it had lost the sporty side of a BMW that I usually expect from them. A BMW is usually the sporty choice over something like a Mercedes or an Audi(if you think X5/GLE/Q7 for example). My worry when everything ends up going electric...is how do manufacturers sprinkle their own touch with their cars. They will just all end up feeling exactly the same to drive I reckon, and I find that all a bit sad to be honest.
cerb4.5lee said:
SWoll said:
Out of interest have you driven a current non hybrid X5 as don't imagine it would feel all that different TBH?
I haven't driven the current generation X5 with an ICE, but I have driven a 2016 model X5 40d and I really liked that. I was just shocked at how different the X5 45e was to drive, and it had lost the sporty side of a BMW that I usually expect from them. A BMW is usually the sporty choice over something like a Mercedes or an Audi(if you think X5/GLE/Q7 for example). My worry when everything ends up going electric...is how do manufacturers sprinkle their own touch with their cars. They will just all end up feeling exactly the same to drive I reckon, and I find that all a bit sad to be honest.
Ref differentiation, does every 2.0 petrol auto feel the same to drive? Of course not as there are still difference in chassis, steering, power delivery etc. to consider. An AWD 500hp Taycan will feel very different to an AWD 500hp Tesla, which will feel very different to a 500hp AWD BMW etc. as harry will attest
Edited by SWoll on Thursday 21st April 09:49
cerb4.5lee said:
I haven't driven the current generation X5 with an ICE, but I have driven a 2016 model X5 40d and I really liked that. I was just shocked at how different the X5 45e was to drive, and it had lost the sporty side of a BMW that I usually expect from them. A BMW is usually the sporty choice over something like a Mercedes or an Audi(if you think X5/GLE/Q7 for example).
My worry when everything ends up going electric...is how do manufacturers sprinkle their own touch with their cars. They will just all end up feeling exactly the same to drive I reckon, and I find that all a bit sad to be honest.
How do they differentiate themselves now, when everything has a twin turbo V8 and an autobox, and half of them on shared platforms already?My worry when everything ends up going electric...is how do manufacturers sprinkle their own touch with their cars. They will just all end up feeling exactly the same to drive I reckon, and I find that all a bit sad to be honest.
SWoll said:
I struggle to believe a relatively small battery pack and motor on one axle makes that much difference so perhaps the current X5 in general wouldnlt be for you?
I broke my own personal rule by approaching the X5 45e with very high expectations to be fair, because the reviews seemed really glowing for it. For me it just didn't feel like a 400bhp vehicle, and the added weight over the ICE'd equivalent just ruined the way it drove for me. What I have learnt though is that a hybrid or an electric car just aren't for me yet. Maybe in time I will learn to appreciate them, but all the X5 45e did for me was push me back towards an ICE'd car.
thegreenhell said:
How do they differentiate themselves now, when everything has a twin turbo V8 and an autobox, and half of them on shared platforms already?
Fair points, but if you jumped out of a X5 40d and then into a GLE400d for example, you can definitely notice how different they are to drive I reckon. The X5 40d will feel more direct and sporty to drive in comparison to the laid back and relaxing approach that the GLE400d takes. cerb4.5lee said:
SWoll said:
I struggle to believe a relatively small battery pack and motor on one axle makes that much difference so perhaps the current X5 in general wouldnlt be for you?
I broke my own personal rule by approaching the X5 45e with very high expectations to be fair, because the reviews seemed really glowing for it. For me it just didn't feel like a 400bhp vehicle, and the added weight over the ICE'd equivalent just ruined the way it drove for me. What I have learnt though is that a hybrid or an electric car just aren't for me yet. Maybe in time I will learn to appreciate them, but all the X5 45e did for me was push me back towards an ICE'd car.
cerb4.5lee said:
thegreenhell said:
How do they differentiate themselves now, when everything has a twin turbo V8 and an autobox, and half of them on shared platforms already?
Fair points, but if you jumped out of a X5 40d and then into a GLE400d for example, you can definitely notice how different they are to drive I reckon. The X5 40d will feel more direct and sporty to drive in comparison to the laid back and relaxing approach that the GLE400d takes. RichB said:
F20CN16 said:
250 minus 190 is 60. What’s the issue?
My point was, that when discussing 'range anxiety' it is often said drivers never do 200 miles without 30 min break. I've always considered this untrue. Classic is Cambridge to North Yorkshire. A14, A1. The car will do it in one charge, just. But the Grantham supercharger is half way and is a good for a loo break and driver change.
I've owned a Tesla for over 4 years and I can say that I've never had range anxiety once. I've done quite a few long journeys (200+ miles) and I travel at slightly above average motorway speeds (top quartile).
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