Confronting Holocaust Denial: BBC2

[fluffekins]

Gweeds said:

Jukebag said:

Im not saying either way about the Holocaust as I've not looked into much, all I'm saying is that people have the right to ask questions and have an opinion. As for 9/11, it's obvious the Sept 11th attacks werent carried out by Bin Laden.

There is no "either way" that requires your affirmation.

No, you don't get to have an opinion about a fact. It's a fact, your ignorant "belief" has no bearing on that and your idiocy deserves ridicule.

[Halmyre]

Dont like rolls said:

Halmyre said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Dont like rolls said:

Imagine what an experienced historical presenter like Lucy Worsley may have achieved.

Far lower viewing figures (and I like Lucy Worsley).

People will have watched this, who never would have given the time of day to a history type programme with Lucy Worsley, because it's presented by David Baddiel. And people who aren't keen on Baddiel but like historical stuff may still have watched it because of the subject matter.

Also, Worsley's presenting style wouldn't have worked with the subject matter.

Why ?

I think Lucy's style is 'amused detachment', which works well with the Tudors but would be the wrong approach for the subject in hand.

Dont like rolls said:

I add, I do not limit to her alone, there are many others who can present in a "joined-up" way....Baddiel cannot present historical facts that way as was seen.

It was a programme about Holocaust denial, not a historical documentary.

[croissant]

Jukebag said:

Excuse me, but people have a right to have an opinion and deny an historical event like that. And if questioning the Holocaust is seen as something of a looney and to be not be taken seriously then why are you tube videos being taken down because someone is simply voicing their opinion and questioning the official version of events we have been told?. There are lots and lots of videos like this that youtube are censoring, and know doubt other platforms too like social media. Questioning all of the "terrorist" attacks are also being targeted or anything that challenges the norm.

People love to lump Holocaust denial with events like 9/11 as if to say they are as ridiculous, when in fact when you do your own research instead of believing what the mainstream news tells you, you start to realize the official story of 9/11 doesn't make sense. Then we have all this fake news, yet the real fake news should be the likes of the BBC, etc.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NzJGyLK6Ksg

Seriously? Such a moronic perspective. Go dig a hole and climb into it

[dvb70]

Conspiracy theorists are just an odd bunch. They reject any official or expert testimony to tell people they have done their own research which involved watching youtube video's made by god knows who that give them the real truth.

It's not always a bad thing to question authorities and known wisdom on a subject but they should apply the same level of scepticism to their youtube sources as well but they never seem to make that connection. Extreme scepticism about any official version but a complete lack of scepticism about extremely dubious sources.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

Everyone is entitled to an opinion. The issue is, people believe all opinions are equal, and deserve respect. They aren't and don't.

When it comes to the holocaust, the opinions of thousands off eye witnesses, survivors, troops involved in the liberation of the camps, those who shot the footage, etc.etc, are worth a lot more than some mindless in Ireland with a guitar, and the other mindless s who share his nutty views.

People are also welcome to the opinion that 2+2=5. Good for them. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but no one is entitled to their own facts. And the truth doesn't give two fks about some tt's opinions.

[Dont like rolls]

Halmyre said:

It was a programme about Holocaust denial, not a historical documentary.

I accept that difference and I accept there are differing approaches to things : to mock the denial present the facts, to prevent the denial present the facts.

Maybe I just did not find his "style" and the structure fitted the subject/did it justice....I can accept others have a difference of view.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

At least we all can agree that the programme was actually on!

[Dont like rolls]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

At least we all can agree that the programme was actually on!

It was, and to be fair I watched all of it.

[vxr8mate]

Dont like rolls said:

ash73 said:

Interesting programme but not sure why the Irish idiot was given any air time, what's the point? People like him should be ridiculed, not taken seriously. I guess it's difficult to joke about something so serious.

The British intelligence memo was eye opening.

Exactly, there we a few snippets of "proof" (which are well known so hardly a revelation) and the rest was flat, unconnected and poorly presented.
A shame and a waste, the BBC could have made a great program but it decided to do the "Celebrity Presents" thing (dumbed down and typical these days), as a historical subject presenter he was very very average and the program was no better than a A level student could present.

Imagine what an experienced historical presenter like Lucy Worsley may have achieved.

Edited by Dont like rolls on Tuesday 18th February 21:40

I dont think the program was meant to be historical in its main theme. There's so much out there regarding the atrocities there would be no point.

Its intention was to highlight the fact that nutters out there are contesting the holocaust and the numbers dead and the survivors are becoming less and less.

[rdjohn]

I think one small failing was that he failed to point out that Jews were not the only humans to be slaughtered. https://www.socialstudies.org/sites/default/files/...

The other 5-million deaths are equally important and tend to show deniers that the Nazis were far more evil that simply wanting to erase the European Jewish community.

Their experiments in eugenics - particularly seeding Scandinavian women - knew no bounds.

Edited by rdjohn on Wednesday 19th February 12:37

[Dont like rolls]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

[TwigtheWonderkid]

rdjohn said:

I think one small failing was that he failed to point out that Jews were not the only humans to be slaughtered. https://www.socialstudies.org/sites/default/files/...

The other 5-million deaths are equally important and tend to show deniers that the Nazis were far more evil that simply wanting to erase the European Jewish community.

Their experiments in eugenics - particularly seeding Scandinavian women - knew no bounds.

Edited by rdjohn on Wednesday 19th February 12:37

This may be true, but people who don't like gypsies, or communists, or the disabled, or other groups who suffered, tend not to deny the holocaust. Holocaust denial is always an antisemitic thing. That moron with the guitar wasn't singing about Scandinavian women and how they've benefited from spreading the holocaust myth. It wouldn't occur to him. He hates Jews, that's the sole basis of his idiocy.

[irocfan]

rdjohn said:

I think one small failing was that he failed to point out that Jews were not the only humans to be slaughtered. https://www.socialstudies.org/sites/default/files/...

The other 5-million deaths are equally important and tend to show deniers that the Nazis were far more evil that simply wanting to erase the European Jewish community.

Their experiments in eugenics - particularly seeding Scandinavian women - knew no bounds.

Edited by rdjohn on Wednesday 19th February 12:37

agreed, a point I made earlier - and one that bear constant re-making

[Gary C]

irocfan said:

the only criticism I could make is that not enough seems to be made of the other victims (gays, political prisoners, mentally ill, disabled, Slavs, Roma and others) but other than that rock on, more strength to the BBC. FWIW I do agree about the veneer of civilisation surrounding the nazis, many did seem to be up-right members of society (though obviously many were misfits)

I thought that too. I suppose it was a personal thing for him, so focused on that, but I was surprised it wasn't mentioned (unless I missed it)

[Olas]

People will never stop talking about the 6 million lives lost to the holocaust.

Are the 30 million Africans killed by Leopold of Belgium worth a mention? 5x the deaths and nobody ever villifies Leopold.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

It wasn't a programme about the holocaust, it was about holocaust denial. That's an exclusively anti Semitic thing. It's all about Jews lying, Jews running the banks, the media, the world. So of course the programme was all about the Jews. No one ever claimed the holocaust didn't happen and it's all a gypsy lie so they can have better council sites! Or made up by homosexuals in order to further their cause.

[stuartmmcfc]

I’d add that it was a programme about Holocaust denial presented by a man who’s family had died during it and so as a a Jew it was particularly upsetting to be told it didn’t happen.
That made it very personal.

Edited by stuartmmcfc on Wednesday 19th February 15:36

[irocfan]

Olas said:

People will never stop talking about the 6 million lives lost to the holocaust.

Are the 30 million Africans killed by Leopold of Belgium worth a mention? 5x the deaths and nobody ever villifies Leopold.

TBF I think that that loon was vilified even then since even for those times it was a brutal and barbaric act. Another one who can join stalin, mao, polpot and hitler as total s

[rdjohn]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

This may be true, but people who don't like gypsies, or communists, or the disabled, or other groups who suffered, tend not to deny the holocaust. Holocaust denial is always an antisemitic thing. That moron with the guitar wasn't singing about Scandinavian women and how they've benefited from spreading the holocaust myth. It wouldn't occur to him. He hates Jews, that's the sole basis of his idiocy.

It’s difficult to make this point without sounding like the moron with the guitar.

The Holocaust was against 11-million people, 6-million of whom were Jews. I am not aware of any significant memorials to the other 5-million, so, 70-years on, it is now thought of as only a Jewish Holocaust. Baddiel himself was critical of UK government papers that used generic terms to describe what had happened to people, rather than refer to Jews specifically.

If the memorials had been to remember the whole 11-million, then it would have been easier to call out these deniers as being just plain antiemetic.

I apologise if I have offended anyone with this point.

[Ayahuasca]

Olas said:

People will never stop talking about the 6 million lives lost to the holocaust.

Are the 30 million Africans killed by Leopold of Belgium worth a mention? 5x the deaths and nobody ever villifies Leopold.

Indeed, or the millions killed by Stalin and Mao.

But, the Holocaust is different from those genocides because it was industrialised, organised, documented, legalised, cold blooded murder and an attempt to exterminate a whole people.