Mr Bates vs The Post Office

[Wills2]

Blackpuddin said:

I don't blame her on that actually, this guy is too in love with the sound of his own voice, by the time he gets to the end of his question you've forgotten what the first (important) part was.

My issues is I'm looking at her as the architect of the biggest legal scandal in the history of the UK and thinking about the lives taken and ruined, if he was bouncing up and down and screaming at her I'd find it difficult not to cheer along.

[dmsims]

Stein's closed questioning is just irritating and not very effective

[Speed 3]

alscar said:

When all of the innocent sub PM ‘s were taken to court and found “ guilty “ ( based entirely on what the computer incorrectly said ) why was the fact that no actual missing money was ever found not been mentioned ?
Surely the courts might have asked the question ?
Or am I just being dense ?

I'm not an accountant but AIUI basically as the cash never existed in the first place it could never be "found". The system bugs made up false income that should have reconciled against cash/bank. When it didn't, that's when they assumed it had been stolen rather than never existing in the first place. The SPM's had no way of proving the "sales" hadn't happened in the first place. It would take a forensic review to reconcile against stock & services rendered to prove that the sales didn't take place, that's what Second Sight were doing. When the suspicions became evident that's when they shut it down and said "nothing to see here". The initial court hearings with the PO as Prosecutor itself would have been fairly low level and heard separately by different Judges and the courts wouldn't have any reason to disbelieve the PO. In hindsight it looks suss knowing what we now know but at the time it wasn't the thing it became.

Just my twopenneth anyway....

[simon_harris]

This is Mr Henry not Mr Stein

[TGCOTF-dewey]

simon_harris said:

This is Mr Henry not Mr Stein

Noted.. I've changed my post.

[Bonefish Blues]

ChevronB19 said:

I’ve participated in multiple ‘lessons learned’ reviews (not my fault, honest guv), and the only lesson I have ever learned from them is that lessons are never learned.

IME they often don't happen at all because laundry-washing, even to the extent of my contract being terminated early when the PIR was scheduled. I got into the habit of just writing a paper.

[RichB]

Having missed the start I'm just catching up a bit while they have the morning tea-break. Mr Henry doesn't seem to have elicited as much reaction from PV as Mr Beer did yesterday.

Here we go now with Mr Stein KC... ; )

Edited by RichB on Friday 24th May 11:18

[LimmerickLad]

Stein..aka the Rotweiler

[Harpoon]

That was a quite an opening statement!

[Bonefish Blues]

Beer's on Wed was much subtler and more disarming!

[Maxdecel]

Well that hit the ground running,

[Bonefish Blues]

Sir Wyn in early to set the boundaries.

[Ken_Code]

Wills2 said:

The "can you repeat the first part of your question" is clearly a tactic she has been coached to employ, she uses it often when the question passes a certain length.

If she says "I don't believe I" again I'll scream.

I do think that the questions are too long and convoluted if the aim is to get a definitive response on matters of fact.

When I’ve had to investigate issues at work I can’t imagine that I’d have got the clarity I wanted if there were so many clauses, deviations and flourishes in there. It comes across as rhetoric that you’d use to convince a jury more than (for example) the way you’d ask in an air accident investigation.

[Castrol for a knave]

Stein has one approach, but Beer, his leads you to the point where all you can do is lie down on the flag and shoot yourself in the head.

[Short Grain]

She's way too comfortable on the stand and, as stated, can ruin the questioners flow with the odd, "I'm sorry, could you repeat the first part of the question please? She also knows it can't get too heated or aggressive as, with the greatest respect to him, Sir Wyn will step in, so she's protected to a certain extent! Interrupting somebody's train of thought, or indeed lies, can be very effective in tripping them up!

It would be great if she was subject to questioning in the style we've all seen on tv!

"Ms Vennels, I put it to you that you are a lying, scheming b*tch, who will be cast down into the fires of hell by your own God!" "Take her down!"

We can dream!

[cookie1600]

Bonefish Blues said:

Beer's on Wed was much subtler and more disarming!

I'd rather Beer was my surgeon, working with a scalpel to get results, than Henry using his machete!

[TGCOTF-dewey]

Well he's just earned himself the lucrative role of the new face of Cillit Bang

[LimmerickLad]

cookie1600 said:

Bonefish Blues said:

Beer's on Wed was much subtler and more disarming!

I'd rather Beer was my surgeon, working with a scalpel to get results, than Henry using his machete!

Beer represents the Enquiry whilst Stein represents SPM's so probably why the different approaches.

Oh here we go with the crocodile tears

Edited by LimmerickLad on Friday 24th May 11:37

[TGCOTF-dewey]

Gloves are off now... Ouch.

He's impressive.

[Wills2]

Short Grain said:

It would be great if she was subject to questioning in the style we've all seen on tv!

"Ms Vennels, I put it to you that you are a lying, scheming b*tch, who will be cast down into the fires of hell by your own God!" "Take her down!"

We can dream!

We can indeed.