Star Wars: The Last Jedi (CONTAINS SPOILERS)

[Chemical Ali]

I think some of you pc apologists for the anti semitic Disney corp are missing the point entirely.

We are customers of a brand, in this case Star Wars. I am being sold a product with a big fat Star Wars logo on it. I have a right to expect, as a customer, a flavour to my purchase as I would not go to see it if it were not Star Wars. The feeling of upset I feel is that I have been conned into purchasing tickets to see a movie of Star Wars and this is not true to Star Wars. I would feel the same if my coca cola was lemonade flavour.

Disney have not chosen to take a different direction with lots of women and racial minorities in it. They have chosen to make a film, con me that it is a Star Wars and make me spend money buying their product which is average at best.

I was sold a Posche and I got a Skoda. Nothing wrong with Skoda, but don't tell me its a Porsche and then tell me I'm potentially racist and or sexist because I don't like it.

[TTmonkey]

Only decent character in the film is BB8. Absolute hero.

[Halb]

TTmonkey said:

Only decent character in the film is BB8. Absolute hero.

I liked the empire one.

[Pebbles167]

Yes BB8 is a decent droid

I like C3PO & R2D2 for the most part too, although many of their scenes in the prequels were awful. Particularly 3PO in Attack of the Clones.. Shut up you fool!!

[Halb]

Pebbles167 said:

Yes BB8 is a decent droid

I like C3PO & R2D2 for the most part too, although many of their scenes in the prequels were awful. Particularly 3PO in Attack of the Clones.. Shut up you fool!!

The prequels do not exist, move along, move along.


I like bb8, he was 'cute' but not saccharine, made me wonder why they went full ewok with those lil turkey things, overegged the pudding again.

[bitchstewie]

Chemical Ali said:

I think some of you pc apologists for the anti semitic Disney corp are missing the point entirely.

At that point you went from daft to having no credibility.

I liked a film so I'm a "pc apologist for the anti semitic Disney corp"?

OK then

[bitchstewie]

p1doc said:

I have to say I enjoyed the hux on hold scene with Adrian Edmondson smirking in background

I didn't even spot it was him until I saw it the second time and then it took me until later in the film.

Eddie Hitler in Star Wars.. amazing

[Halb]

Must be reporting to Lord Dark Helmet

[zygalski]

Ratings plummeting on imdb.
7.7 now from 8.2 a few days ago.

[Chemical Ali]

bhstewie said:

Chemical Ali said:

I think some of you pc apologists for the anti semitic Disney corp are missing the point entirely.

At that point you went from daft to having no credibility.

I liked a film so I'm a "pc apologist for the anti semitic Disney corp"?

OK then

No, thats not what I said. Either you are trolling for an argument or you didn't read and understand what I wrote. In fact your response begs the question if you read my point at all.

I said "some of you", and the context of my assertion was referring to those actively seeking (and they are as evidenced in the article I highlighted today on BBC online) to frame those who did not like the film as sexist, racist or the like. It is the height of arrogance and stupidity to assume those that hold a differing opinion as wrong, especially on works of art. But to accuse them by direct accusation or by inference that they are racist or sexist is not only wrong but should be called out for it, and I have.

The point I was making directly was as a simple consumer, which you do not refer to at all. You have simply taken offence by the line "some of you" etc. We can assume that there are pc apologists in this world and Disney has clearly an anti semetic past. Any basic google search will show you that. So if you choose to be caught in an open net of an accusation then you stand guilty. Otherwise why be offended? It is a cheap and unlettered response to simply claim my position as irrelevant. And your position smacks of the very pointed accusation I was making. The old adage - if the shoe fits...

Edited by Chemical Ali on Thursday 21st December 15:01

[AshVX220]

Halb said:

THe RLM take is really very good. THe skinny one says, at one time Star Wars was a great trio of films, people loved. Now, people like the brand, and get defensive over it.

article with Rian defending his choice on Snoke
http://epicstream.com/news/Rian-Johnson-Explains-W...

That explains a lot to me, or at least helps me see why there were so many holes between the two. He was writing the script for TLJ while they were still shooting TFA. To me this explains in some way why there were so many things that were dropped between the two,

[AndStilliRise]

Chemical Ali said:

bhstewie said:

Chemical Ali said:

I think some of you pc apologists for the anti semitic Disney corp are missing the point entirely.

At that point you went from daft to having no credibility.

I liked a film so I'm a "pc apologist for the anti semitic Disney corp"?

OK then

No, thats not what I said. Either you are trolling for an argument or you didn't read and understand what I wrote. In fact your response begs the question if you read my point at all.

I said "some of you", and the context of my assertion was referring to those actively seeking (and they are as evidenced in the article I highlighted today on BBC online) to frame those who did not like the film as sexist, racist or the like. It is the height of arrogance and stupidity to assume those that hold a differing opinion as wrong, especially on works of art. But to accuse them by direct accusation or by inference that they are racist or sexist is not only wrong but should be called out for it, and I have.

The point I was making directly was as a simple consumer, which you do not refer to at all. You have simply taken offence by the line "some of you" etc. We can assume that there are pc apologists in this world and Disney has clearly an anti semetic past. Any basic google search will show you that. So if you choose to be caught in an open net of an accusation then you stand guilty. Otherwise why be offended? It is a cheap and unlettered response to simply claim my position as irrelevant. And your position smacks of the very pointed accusation I was making. The old adage - if the shoe fits...

Edited by Chemical Ali on Thursday 21st December 15:01

I have no idea what you are talking about. I came on here for SW and you are posting things about being anti semetic. Perhaps a different thread eh?

[r11co]

AshVX220 said:

That explains a lot to me, or at least helps me see why there were so many holes between the two. He was writing the script for TLJ while they were still shooting TFA. To me this explains in some way why there were so many things that were dropped between the two,

That is total bullcrap. A cop-out excuse because he's sensed the backlash against his politically-correct 'force is democratic', characters in holding position non-storyline (not to mention his playground attempt to prove he's 'bigger' than JJ Abrams).

Anyone with even a cursory knowledge of the process knows that he's taking us for fools with this statement. There was a year between the release of TFA and filming starting on TLJ so there's no way Johnson can feign ignorance. Script re-writes are as common as sex-pests in Hollywood and several could have been done in the intervening time. Heck, the movie could even have been drastically altered in post-production using a fraction of the CGI processing power already invested (Leia piloting suicide light-speed jump for example) without having to change a line of dialogue.

His decisions were conscious ones, but now he doesn't even have the guts to stand behind them 100% and is trying to sow the seeds of doubt and introduce some plausible deniability for his with-hindsight poor choices by implying that he didn't know how TFA ended before TLJ was set in stone.

Edited by r11co on Thursday 21st December 16:37

[chris watton]

Hands up those who are going to pay good money to re-watch this at the cinema!

After watching TFA and RO, as soon as I left the cinema, I wanted to watch them again. that feeling of elation was missing this time around, totally.

I think I have watched RO more because of the aesthetics, more so than TFA. I love the 'lived in' look, and the weather-decayed remnants of the old republic, I can sense the history of a massive struggle when watching certain scenes. I could tell is made by people who cared about/painstakingly researched the history/lore - even though I knew how it ended, and the characters weren't perhaps fleshed out as much as I would have liked, it is still a very enjoyable re-watch movie for me because it fits perfectly with that universe.

All of that is missing completely with this latest effort. If it didn't have the SW name attached to it, I am sure it would have been ridiculed almost as much as ID2 by critics.

I fear that Disney has become a behemoth of a company, and professional critics maybe apprehensive about writing truthful reviews - I cannot believe for a second that Mark Kermode, who I have listened to for a couple of decades couldn't see the gaping flaws in this movie and instead just praise it. It makes little sense.

Edited by chris watton on Thursday 21st December 17:55

[Chemical Ali]

AndStilliRise said:

I have no idea what you are talking about. I came on here for SW and you are posting things about being anti semetic. Perhaps a different thread eh?

Again, another person who simply wants to shout anyone's opinions they disagree with as irrelevant. Did you read the post and context of it that I put up? Probably not. So why bother commenting on it when you have nothing to say?

My point is the film was rubbish. Yours?

Edited by Chemical Ali on Thursday 21st December 16:37

[Chemical Ali]

chris watton said:

Hands up those who are going to pay good money to re-watch this at the cinema!

After watching TFA and RO, as soon as I left the cinema, I wanted to watch them again. that feeling of elation was missing this time around, totally.

I think I have watched RO more because of the aesthetics, more so than TFA. I love the 'lived in' look, and the weather-decade remnants of the old republic, I can sense the history of a massive struggle when watching certain scenes. I could tell is made by people who cared about/painstakingly researched the history/lore - even though I knew how it ended, and the characters weren't perhaps fleshed out as much as I would have liked, it is still a very enjoyable re-watch movie for me because it fits perfectly with that universe.

All of that is missing completely with this latest effort. If it didn't have the SW name attached to it, I am sure it would have been ridiculed almost as much as ID2 by critics.

I fear that Disney has become a behemoth of a company, and professional critics maybe apprehensive about writing truthful reviews - I cannot believe for a second that Mark Kermode, who I have listened to for a couple of decades couldn't see the gaping flaws in this movie and instead just praise it. It makes little sense.

Exactly. And I was really surprised by Mark Kermode. Interestingly, he states he likes the film because it is less Star Wars in its nature. I think this irony escapes him.

[tankplanker]

r11co said:

That is total bullcrap. A cop-out excuse because he's sensed the backlash against his politically-correct 'force is democratic', characters in holding position non-storyline (not to mention his playground attempt to prove he's 'bigger' than JJ Abrams).

Anyone with even a cursory knowledge of the process knows that he's taking us for fools with this statement. There was a year between the release of TFA and filming starting on TLJ so there's no way Johnson can feign ignorance. Script re-writes are as common as sex-pests in Hollywood and several could have been done in the intervening time. Heck, the movie could even have been drastically altered in post-production using a fraction of the CGI processing power already invested (Leia piloting suicide light-speed jump for example) without having to change a line of dialogue.

His decisions were conscious ones, but now he doesn't even have the guts to stand behind them 100% and is trying to sow the seeds of doubt and introduce some plausible deniability for his with-hindsight poor choices by implying that he didn't know how TFA ended before TLJ was set in stone.

Edited by r11co on Thursday 21st December 16:37

This was also confirmed by both Kenedy and JJ when TFA was fiming, they stated in interviews that Rian was sent scripts and made aware of major decisions during filming of TFA. See here: http://www.slashfilm.com/kathleen-kennedy-intervie...

[Rumblestripe]

Chemical Ali said:

I think some of you pc apologists for the anti semitic Disney corp are missing the point entirely.

We are customers of a brand, in this case Star Wars. I am being sold a product with a big fat Star Wars logo on it. I have a right to expect, as a customer, a flavour to my purchase as I would not go to see it if it were not Star Wars. The feeling of upset I feel is that I have been conned into purchasing tickets to see a movie of Star Wars and this is not true to Star Wars. I would feel the same if my coca cola was lemonade flavour.

Disney have not chosen to take a different direction with lots of women and racial minorities in it. They have chosen to make a film, con me that it is a Star Wars and make me spend money buying their product which is average at best.

I was sold a Posche and I got a Skoda. Nothing wrong with Skoda, but don't tell me its a Porsche and then tell me I'm potentially racist and or sexist because I don't like it.

If there was an award for nonsense you'd stroll it.

[quote]"The feeling of upset I feel is that I have been conned into purchasing tickets to see a movie of Star Wars and this is not true to Star Wars."

Did the nasty anti-semites make you watch non-white people and ladies in spaceships? For shame!

Welcome to the 21st Century.

[quote]"...don't tell me its a Porsche and then tell me I'm potentially racist and or sexist because..."

Oh and a little advice. If you feel the need to put a paraphrase of "I'm not xxxx-ist, BUT..." in (or in front of) a sentence, you probably are being xxxx-ist and putting that in front doesn't stop it being so interpreted.

[frisbee]

I quite enjoyed the film. This thread is only enhancing my enjoyment!

[bitchstewie]

Chemical Ali said:

No, thats not what I said. Either you are trolling for an argument or you didn't read and understand what I wrote. In fact your response begs the question if you read my point at all.

How else should I interpret "some of you pc apologists for the anti semitic Disney corp"?

It's a film you don't like and so far you've managed to throw in "PC" "apologists" "politically correct morally superior council worker" and they're conning you that it's Star Wars.

You don't like the film, you think it's rubbish, that's fine I wouldn't try and tell you you should like it because peoples tastes differ, but the stuff about anti semitism is just plain fked up.

Go ask for a refund and vote it down on IMDB and just don't watch the next one.