24 Hours in Police Custody: Ch4
Discussion
Nathan seemed like a bit of a nutcase - surprised one of the US investment banks haven't snapped him up!
He demonstrates a lot of the traits in order to be successful in the industry:
- inability to listen to others
- complete lack of rationale
- aggression
- disproportionate reaction to not getting his own way
- drug use
He demonstrates a lot of the traits in order to be successful in the industry:
- inability to listen to others
- complete lack of rationale
- aggression
- disproportionate reaction to not getting his own way
- drug use
hungry_hog said:
Nathan seemed like a bit of a nutcase - surprised one of the US investment banks haven't snapped him up!
He demonstrates a lot of the traits in order to be successful in the industry:
- inability to listen to others
- complete lack of rationale
- aggression
- disproportionate reaction to not getting his own way
- drug use
He demonstrates a lot of the traits in order to be successful in the industry:
- inability to listen to others
- complete lack of rationale
- aggression
- disproportionate reaction to not getting his own way
- drug use
hungry_hog said:
Nathan seemed like a bit of a nutcase - surprised one of the US investment banks haven't snapped him up!
He demonstrates a lot of the traits in order to be successful in the industry:
- inability to listen to others
- complete lack of rationale
- aggression
- disproportionate reaction to not getting his own way
- drug use
Funny you should say that actually. Cards on the table I am late 40's and had a bi polar (manic depression as I prefer to call it) diagnosis since I was 18.He demonstrates a lot of the traits in order to be successful in the industry:
- inability to listen to others
- complete lack of rationale
- aggression
- disproportionate reaction to not getting his own way
- drug use
Reason your post stood out is that a lot of highly successful people in roles just as you described.
I myself was an energy broker for 10 years.
Anyway i won't go much more into that side of it but you are closer to the truth than the joke seems.
For me watching this made me think of how i deal with my condition, i contextualise it to all the famous genius Artists who had bi polar, all the leaders who have had bi polar like Winston Churchill, or the famous rock stars like Axel Rose and Kurt Cobain or Amy Winehouse....
Bi polar is a fascinating condition and there is shades within it like any condition, some can be just about lived with sometimes it will be trying to kill you everyday.
The reason my heart dropped when they said 'bi polar' was that suddenly my representation in my head of some romanticised manic depressive struggling against the world and the human condition seeing things mere mortals have no sense of was about to be shattered and represented by two scummy white chavs the bald one of which i bear a passing resemblance although i would like to think I am more attractive, but alas I'm bald bearded and a bit gaunt of face....
As it turned out, by the end of it, i felt it was a very good representation of the true dark side of my and others condition......
Lets be clear here, bi polar isn't some complete alien way to experience life..... it IS the human condition, but turned up to 11...
All the traits that make us human, fear, sadness, joy, etc all exist is us all and its why humans evolved and still live on this earth as the parasites we are.
Its just that those traits are hugely extreme at times, so rational fear can become paranoia, joy to mania, and sadness to to unending suffering and pain...
The programme actually 20 mins in felt to me like some Arty play based on the story of Van Gogh and Paul Gaugin's time living together, but made flesh in modern times in a high rise flat by two protagonists who aren't Artists, but the link with the paint splattered over the floor was the touch that would mould it into what would of been genius, were it not for the fact it was a true story and my flight of fantasy was just that....
So yeah watching the most of the programme imagining that Arty play, Nathan as Van Gogh, Paul as Gaugin (even looks a bit like him), was something I wasn't expecting but glad it happened.. (the manic in me already has planed out that play and I'm already reading the reviews and collecting the awards for it as I wait for the feature length film with Brad Pitt as Nathan who is actually playing an idea of Van Gogh)
Still with me?
So yes, the actual programme. As someone already said, clearly these weren't your typical idiot chavs..... it was more for me, but for the grace of God go I, and I'm an atheist but that saying is the best we have.
Background to me, is Art college, Artist trying to make my way in London drank too much lived a very weird life which belonged in another era, then ended up as an Energy broker and they loved me because when a bit manic i could smash targets and i fitted in with the drunk coke heads so never seemed out of place in my behaviours...apart from when i was depressed and that is something that should never be shown in sales.... a weakness.
Now I'm back to being an Artist, so yes any of my behaviour now is just "well I'm an Artist"......
I stopped drinking 10 years ago (best thing i ever did) no medication ever since my early 20's as for me personally the anti depressant industry is one big scam, but that's another story.
Nathan a few months before he split with his partner looked good, he was clearly intelligent and it quite right as a human to have a fear for self preservation, but like i said, its extremes and his was extreme fear and paranoia, which goes beyond 'normal' people and starts to look 'mental'.
I have an array of axes and thick bike chains under my bed as I'm scared to death of someone breaking into my house and attacking my kids, i need to be ready.... This i argue to my wife is 'normal'...... i think now, although deep down i already knew, this ain't normal....
I do feel much of the time people are out to get me, not as bad as it used to be at times, but its still there, i get very angry and i feel like i know stuff that normal people don't and I'm always fighting against that....
Its dangerous. But i mange it, whether I could if my wife left me and took the kids, I'd like to think i could now as I've gone through that scenario so many times in my head over and over...
Nathans problem IMO was the Valium he was taking in excess, which again is why i steer clear of medication, I'd guess that the Valium put Nathan into a massive bout of mania in which in a manic state its far worse than depression for others around you...obviously.
He even said at the police desk "i don't know what just happened but I'm really happy"
I think we can all say that being really happy at that point, isn't normal.... that was the overuse of Valium and a bottle of vodka making a tornado of mania.
Must of felt great......
I thought the police really showed up, don't believe for a second this is how they treat every case like this, as i know from experience they struggle to separate mental illness from how they deal with some drunk on a Saturday night...
But this gave me some hope.
Having said that, i know as a manic depressive , or should say i learnt over decades, that if i know that drinking booze puts me into a manic phase, then its MY responsibility to not drink alcohol.... ok easier said than done, but if i do something really stupid, yes i have a mental illness, but i could to some degree control it by not drinking or doing drugs illegal or illegal...
I try these days to be boring, boring keeps me alive..... i used to chase the manic high, now i seek vanilla and beige.... to keep sane(ish).
Blimey, credit to anyone who read down to here..... a right ramble...
I just want to add it was good to see 'real' mental illness, as the media calls 'mental illness' someone getting a high Gas bill, or feeling a bit sad for an hour because they looked on instagram and saw someone with a big house and a pool....
This was mental illness, not the romanticised mental illness I'm so allured by to make me navigate it a bit smoother, and not the made up mental illness so pharma can sell lots of anti depressants to 'cure' normal feelings....
This was raw, and i have to think if this was America Nathan would of been shot right?
Some peoples take out may very well be that he should of been.... but i couldn't help be drawn towards both of them, they did bad stuff, but it sort of made sense, certainly i can see how it made sense in their heads....
Great programme. sorry for all the word salad......
Just to add, the delivery driver with the take away, no one should have to go through what he went through, must of been horrible, so its worth me noting that along with the copper in shot car.
Irony being they will get a pile of medications from the doctor because of what they went through so pharma wins again...
Edited by Kamov on Monday 4th December 09:28
A great insight Kamov, thanks for sharing all of that with us.
In comparison to yourself and those featured my own emotional waves don't tend to be as rough and after watching last night it really put a few things into perspective after a difficult couple of hours wandering around in the snow running some pretty ridiculous thoughts through my head. Now I'm sat here with a cup-a-soup and a bit more reason. The episode really hit home how easily things can escalate when you're struggling mentally but also reminded me how woeful the services available can be, again this was highlighted by the stat that 1 in 3 calls the police hand now are related to mental illness.
I've had various treatments over the years, some via the NHS but most privately (I'm lucky to have this option) and I've seen a decline in availability and willingness to help over the last 5 years or so to the point where I've given up trying. The turning point was when I found a self-help referral to a group that I thought might be of use to me, I filled in the forms, I was accepted and was due to attend and then the day before someone from the NHS called to say they'd cancelled my place because "you need more help than this can provide"... but they couldn't tell me how to get that help or where. Nathan knew he needed help and you could hear him trying but unfortunately he also went for assistance using alcohol and pills bought on the internet, possible out of desperation because he couldn't get anywhere with the services he clearly knew existed.
It's hard to be helped when you don't want to accept it and then even when you do the nature of this stuff can often mean you withdraw or just decide there's no point but what an episode. The contrast with the dog handler and how this all affected him mentally too, a self perpetuating issue that just keeps adding victims along the way.
I hope they get all the help they need in prison and I was relieved when Paul admitted to being the one with the gun on the balcony, all the signs pointed to an easy charge on that one for Nathan based on the description provided, prints etc.
It makes you wonder if we're all just more aware of mental illness these days and more willing to talk about or if the world really is causing more of it.
Anyway great episode, good insights into a lot of issues and a change from a load of "no comment" interviews and the CPS letting us all down.
Back to Traffic Cops now...
In comparison to yourself and those featured my own emotional waves don't tend to be as rough and after watching last night it really put a few things into perspective after a difficult couple of hours wandering around in the snow running some pretty ridiculous thoughts through my head. Now I'm sat here with a cup-a-soup and a bit more reason. The episode really hit home how easily things can escalate when you're struggling mentally but also reminded me how woeful the services available can be, again this was highlighted by the stat that 1 in 3 calls the police hand now are related to mental illness.
I've had various treatments over the years, some via the NHS but most privately (I'm lucky to have this option) and I've seen a decline in availability and willingness to help over the last 5 years or so to the point where I've given up trying. The turning point was when I found a self-help referral to a group that I thought might be of use to me, I filled in the forms, I was accepted and was due to attend and then the day before someone from the NHS called to say they'd cancelled my place because "you need more help than this can provide"... but they couldn't tell me how to get that help or where. Nathan knew he needed help and you could hear him trying but unfortunately he also went for assistance using alcohol and pills bought on the internet, possible out of desperation because he couldn't get anywhere with the services he clearly knew existed.
It's hard to be helped when you don't want to accept it and then even when you do the nature of this stuff can often mean you withdraw or just decide there's no point but what an episode. The contrast with the dog handler and how this all affected him mentally too, a self perpetuating issue that just keeps adding victims along the way.
I hope they get all the help they need in prison and I was relieved when Paul admitted to being the one with the gun on the balcony, all the signs pointed to an easy charge on that one for Nathan based on the description provided, prints etc.
It makes you wonder if we're all just more aware of mental illness these days and more willing to talk about or if the world really is causing more of it.
Anyway great episode, good insights into a lot of issues and a change from a load of "no comment" interviews and the CPS letting us all down.
Back to Traffic Cops now...
Edited by thetapeworm on Monday 4th December 17:40
Fermit said:
A big thanks for such an insightful post. Personally, I think it was pretty brave of you to put such a warts and all overview of your personal experiences
Thank you, but really I'd say its braver to read all of that!Like I say, we all have it, the human condition, just that some of us to varying degrees have it to extreme's, as and we know with any extremes, they are the danger areas.
Taken me decades to just about feel, or at least just about convince myself I have a handle on it, miro managing my moods, very simple mind graph of what is a low and one which is necessary, dog dies i feel sad, normal no need to panic be grateful I can feel a human emotion, or wake up everything i thought was good is now bad, I'm terrible, bad Dad letting my kids down (even though I'm not), they'd be better off if i wasn't here I ruin everything....
That is the point on my graph where this i need to buckle up and ride out the storm and wait for the day, which always comes, where i stabilize and it all seems good again even though nothing changed it was always ok... my mind just told me it was bad, twisted everything and started to punish me.
Then i need to be ready for the manic rush, again buckle up, and if that mind graph the nice happy feelings and extra creativity and incredible thought's on solving world problems start to turn into lack of empathy and lack of need for others ro family and aggression because, well 'i am the second coming', its gone too far.......
Oh the joy.... what a bloody ride....
First, many thanks to Kamov for taking the time to put that post together, very interesting.
I thought the programme was enlightening in the way the police responded, probably the best they could do in the circumstances.
It appeared the corridor/landing/walkway was covered by cctv, was no-one watching it ? All the earlier events were there to see and action could have been taken ( I know, hindsight and all that ).
From a personal point of view, if I had to live in a place like that for any amount of time it would have a bad effect on my mental balance.
I thought the programme was enlightening in the way the police responded, probably the best they could do in the circumstances.
It appeared the corridor/landing/walkway was covered by cctv, was no-one watching it ? All the earlier events were there to see and action could have been taken ( I know, hindsight and all that ).
From a personal point of view, if I had to live in a place like that for any amount of time it would have a bad effect on my mental balance.
Quite disappointing, although not surprising to learn that Nathan had called for (mental) help a week or so before but didn't get any. That could have been a whole lot better all round (and not to say cheaper) than ending up with a kidnapped delivery man, frightened neighbours, a hefty police armed response, damaged cars and the cost of lawyers, trials and keeping the two of them in prison for some years.
I am a little suspicious of the dog handler who had his car shot at. Tells the AFO that he clearly saw a muzzle flash and a sharp crack. Drives the car away after the incident is all sorted with a damaged screen and thus loses the thus losing the evidence. He then talks to the firearms team about the weapon used before being interviewed.
DS129 said:
From a personal point of view, if I had to live in a place like that for any amount of time it would have a bad effect on my mental balance.
I agree with that to a point, one being that there was a bunch of other residents in that building and many around the country that didn't chuck paint tins of a balcony and shoot a police car.But yes I often wonder how i'd be in a place like that, but as I like to tell people as often as i can, i'd be like this whether i'm in a mansion or in a bed sit, being mental in better clothes and surroundings is good for how society sees you, but little else really in the grand scheme of things.
Good way i explain it is how some people will lose their s
t about rich footballers having mental heath issues "all that money and they say they are depressed!!?", but for me its the best example of how real mental illness doesn't care if your rich, poor or someone on facebook has perceptively a better lifestyle than you... when it gets ytou it gets you.Yes situations will exacerbate it, certainly in my case with both mania and depression, and there are trigger points which are the same for everyone but 'worse' if you already suffer real mental illness.
But for me the key difference is to anyone outside of me at times it would 'look' like i had no reason to be on the edge of topping myself, and i couldn't if asked really provide any real tangible evidence for why i wanted to top myself, it was my mind twisting things...
That for me, at least, is worse than KNOWING why i felt depressed and wanted to end it all....
At least if there was a reason there would be a hope of trying to change it... hopefully that makes sense.
Nathan's partner left him and took his kid, terrible thing to happen, but someone like Nathan if it wasn't that it would be something else, or something he thinks is happening but it actually isn't.
I had a period where if the slightest thing went against me I felt like I was being singled out and picked on by a God I've never believed existed, to the point where if the traffic lights turned to red as i approached them I'd get paranoid that this was a sign i was being conspired against to the eventual point where that and other events, totally random pointless things, put me into a spiral to a big depression after a few days of rage where my then girlfriend dumped me and then i had all I needed to validate my ideas that this was a big conspiracy from the top down to end me.
To most other people around me it was just 'well he's going through a break up', truth was it started from something very much avoidable.
Nuts.
How does society deal with this type of mental illness? Obvious answer, not very well.
Being a bit low your sorted because the pharma industry monetised normal human maladies into a huge business and a never ending amount of 'self help gurus' are at hand to tell you the root to 'wellness'.
Meanwhile people shouting at the moon are ignored........
It's a tough one as some of of the stuff i've done in a manic phase was awful and i should not get any passes for it.
Anyway its not about me, sorry just rambling.
Edited by Kamov on Monday 4th December 16:15
Starfighter said:
I am a little suspicious of the dog handler who had his car shot at. Tells the AFO that he clearly saw a muzzle flash and a sharp crack. Drives the car away after the incident is all sorted with a damaged screen and thus loses the thus losing the evidence. He then talks to the firearms team about the weapon used before being interviewed.
This is why you cannot fully believe the testimony of an eye witness, especialy those wearing a police uniform. People often see what they expect to see and not the reality of a situation. I thought the firearms team did a good job as did the negotiator. The detectives involved after the incident did not show themselves in a good light at all. stevensdrs said:
Starfighter said:
I am a little suspicious of the dog handler who had his car shot at. Tells the AFO that he clearly saw a muzzle flash and a sharp crack. Drives the car away after the incident is all sorted with a damaged screen and thus loses the thus losing the evidence. He then talks to the firearms team about the weapon used before being interviewed.
This is why you cannot fully believe the testimony of an eye witness, especialy those wearing a police uniform. People often see what they expect to see and not the reality of a situation. I thought the firearms team did a good job as did the negotiator. The detectives involved after the incident did not show themselves in a good light at all. 
Fermit said:
A big thanks for such an insightful post. Personally, I think it was pretty brave of you to put such a warts and all overview of your personal experiences
If there's a red flag denoting someone with Bi-Polarit's looooong, rambling, vain, egocentric and self indulgent posts.
Nethybridge said:
If there's a red flag denoting someone with Bi-Polar
it's looooong, rambling, vain, egocentric and self indulgent posts.
Correct! it's looooong, rambling, vain, egocentric and self indulgent posts.
You forgot the attention seeking bit though, so this post of yours actually fills me with an endorphin rush.
But honestly you absolutely nailed it, if my wife read my posts on here she would whole heartily agree with you!!
I need people like you in my life, absolutely love this post so much, every time I read it it just keeps giving.
Thank you.
Not even sure how it was meant, but its comedically brilliant.
Edited by Kamov on Monday 4th December 19:22
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