Star Wars: The Last Jedi (CONTAINS SPOILERS)

[Rumblestripe]

Moonhawk said:

When are we going to see a female main villain (and dare I say it - one that isn't also defeated by a female hero). Even when women do play villains, they often turn out to have a nice side afterall, or if they are defeated, it's pretty much always at the hands of a female hero.

.

Why does it bother you? Other than that it makes the plot a little predictable. But no worse than a TV whodunnit where it is obvious who done it because there is only one "star" left. It happens with English actors too as the yanks don't like playing bad guys. Watched Die Hard the other day and there was dear old Alan Rickman stealing the movie.

[Moonhawk]

Tycho said:

Wasn't this in the latest Thor film?

She was 'defeated' by the demon Surtur merely as a by-product of him destroying Asgard. Her death was not actually seen though - so it's possible she actually survived.

[Moonhawk]

Rumblestripe said:

Moonhawk said:

When are we going to see a female main villain (and dare I say it - one that isn't also defeated by a female hero). Even when women do play villains, they often turn out to have a nice side afterall, or if they are defeated, it's pretty much always at the hands of a female hero.

.

Why does it bother you? Other than that it makes the plot a little predictable. But no worse than a TV whodunnit where it is obvious who done it because there is only one "star" left. It happens with English actors too as the yanks don't like playing bad guys. Watched Die Hard the other day and there was dear old Alan Rickman stealing the movie.

It doesn't "bother me" - i'm just making observations.

I too watched die hard not too long ago - but it isn't the 1980s anymore is it.

Edited by Moonhawk on Saturday 23 December 15:31

[chris watton]

bhstewie said:

Maybe they've decided to reflect how the world was a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away....

Honestly, go watch the film, you may come out thinking all the fuss about Chinese/black/female characters is overblown.

I don't think hardly anyone really cares about the race/gender/ethnicity of characters in films (you seem pretty preoccupied in bringing this non-issue up, though).

It is the story that's important, and how it resonates with you. Sadly, this film fell flat for me, and it seemed so for many in the audience, as when we walked out, there was silence. Unlike the previous films. But if you thought it was great, good for you. Please do not use any 'Ism's' to describe those of us who didn't enjoy so much.

[AlexC1981]

I wish we could see a return to the old special effects using real models and scenes. Computer graphics are getting better, but they still feel cartoon-like to me. I enjoyed seeing the old props in the base on the ice planet.

And why do things have to keep getting bigger and bigger? Star Killer base, Mega star destroyer, Snoak is more powerful than the Emperor - meh... where are they going to go next? It's all a bit childish. I didn't like the scene with the orange round bug-eyed woman thing casually chatting on the phone whilst in a battle with something. Very silly and childish, she really is the new Jar Jar.

I did enjoy Snoaks death and the fight scene in the throne room, however you knew the red guards had no chance of winning, despite their numbers, so it was just a cool fight with no drama or tension whatsoever. Snokes death had nowhere near the emotion of the throne room scene in ROTJ. That scene was so well put together that even though you could not see Dath Vader's face you could really feel the conflict within him, it was such a superbly powerful moment.

The trouble with making a Star Wars film is that they will always be compared to the originals so they will always come up short. That said, I look forward to the next one!

[benny hilfiger]

It just fell a bit flat for me, not entirely sure why, but agree with most of the negative comments already posted. Too many bits that just jarred and too long.
TFA wasn't a great movie but it was good enough and it felt like star wars...I was left wanting more.
After this one, I'm not sure I care where the story is going anymore.

[Rumblestripe]

Moonhawk said:

It doesn't "bother me" - i'm just making observations.

I too watched die hard not too long ago - but it isn't the 1980s anymore is it.

Edited by Moonhawk on Saturday 23 December 15:31

Well it sounds like quite a few ARE bothered.

The point is Die Hard wouldn't be made now (not in the same way) but then if you watch a film from the 40s there will be elements of that which would be changed. Society changes and films reflect the times they are made in. Sci Fi has always been a reflection of the hopes and fears of the time when it was made. Nothing to do with "the future" (or in SW case, "the future past")

[Pebbles167]

Anyone like it more on second viewing? Debating going again with my father after Christmas.

I rated it about 5/10, and I think the early jokes with Hux that carried on later set a poor tone for me as I thought he was a decent bad guy. There were other problems for me, but I didn't completely hate it. Perhaps I'll like it more if I see it again.

I remember seeing Eternal sunshine of the spotless mind for the first time and disliking it, possibly as it was a slightly strange role for Jim Carey. But watching it since has made me think it's actually a very enjoyable film.

[Moonhawk]

Rumblestripe said:

The point is Die Hard wouldn't be made now

Yet here we are in 2017 - with the same "evil white 'well spoken' male" stereotype.

[Patent]

Moonhawk said:

When are we going to see a female main villain (and dare I say it - one that isn't also defeated by a female hero). Even when women do play villains, they often turn out to have a nice side afterall, or if they are defeated, it's pretty much always at the hands of a female hero.

The last witch hunter?!!

[Halb]

Moonhawk said:

At the start of TLJ, I had the briefest glimmer that Rey might actually turn out to be the villain of the story - willingly going to the darkside (and clearly terrifying Luke), whilst Kylo was still conflicted and would ultimately come back to the light to defeat her. That would have really shaken things up and taken things in a different direction...........but no.......it was clearly a step too far.

I had the same thought, and it's similar to what LUcas planned in making Luke the baddie.
TLJ is clearly a film of different pieces.

[Halb]

AlexC1981 said:

I wish we could see a return to the old special effects using real models and scenes. Computer graphics are getting better, but they still feel cartoon-like to me. I enjoyed seeing the old props in the base on the ice planet.

Did someone just say...Rogue 1?

[Russian Troll Bot]

Patent said:

Moonhawk said:

When are we going to see a female main villain (and dare I say it - one that isn't also defeated by a female hero). Even when women do play villains, they often turn out to have a nice side afterall, or if they are defeated, it's pretty much always at the hands of a female hero.

The last witch hunter?!!

Dredd, Suicide Squad, The Mummy and Fast & Furious 8, but I do agree it's still a minority overall

[techguyone]

Sure sounds like with minor tweaking they could have made ita lot more palatable to the traditional fanbase.

Fact is though, regardless of how good it is/isn't if the films continue to make the kind of money they do, there will be no reason for disney to expend any more effort into them, so get used to more of the same.


Disney disneyfied it, no one should be acting all surprised now should they.

Edited by techguyone on Sunday 24th December 11:27

[RemyMartin81D]

I'm hugely conflicted.


The Hux bit at the beginning - bks and felt out of
Bombs falling in gravity in space? Come on ffs
The iron bit - nonsense
Casino world - nonsense.
Luke milking and fishing - weird and nonsense
The generally comedic elements - all made me universally cringe
Killing Snoke - waste of a good character and he clearly was very powerful, had force lightening etc
Killing Luke off - utterly unforgivable
Not killing of Leia - the flying bit made me cringe.
Rose - bks
Killing phasma- again....why? Waste of a good character

The story felt weird like stuff happened and for no real reason, I loved the force awakens but this....I hate to say it but was total dogst.

Have to agree with others on leaving the cinema there was a weird atmosphere and also silence.

Very odd experience , I just didn't enjoy it at all. Fairly gutted tbh and have no idea what the final film will be now.

[Halb]

techguyone said:

Sure sounds like with minor tweaking they could have made ita lot more palatable to the traditional fanbase.

It feels like two films to me.
I'd guess this, utterly ignoring what twaddle Rian says. THe film was superficially similar to Empire, it had to be with Rey going to Luke and the First Order having the Resistance on the run. We'd have learned more about Snoke and his apprentice may wel have tested Rey, all very Empire. But the constant comparisons with Star Wars to A Force Awakens made the bigwigs, or Rian decide to break that, in a very clumsy way, so we still have the struture of what was there, but then with a great big chainsaw destroying all threads to the first film, somebody on my fb feed compared it to Covenant, which I hadn't realised, basically they did an Alien Covenant on The Last Jedi and shredded all the plot points people were interested in.

[chris watton]

Halb said:

It feels like two films to me.
I'd guess this, utterly ignoring what twaddle Rian says. THe film was superficially similar to Empire, it had to be with Rey going to Luke and the First Order having the Resistance on the run. We'd have learned more about Snoke and his apprentice may wel have tested Rey, all very Empire. But the constant comparisons with Star Wars to A Force Awakens made the bigwigs, or Rian decide to break that, in a very clumsy way, so we still have the struture of what was there, but then with a great big chainsaw destroying all threads to the first film, somebody on my fb feed compared it to Covenant, which I hadn't realised, basically they did an Alien Covenant on The Last Jedi and shredded all the plot points people were interested in.

Yep, both movies instantly forgettable, plot that goes nowhere and characters you just don't care about - but both very pretty to look at. (Although as I have mentioned, so was ID2 - there are many films out there that look great but lack substance).

I really liked Rey in the first movie, and was looking forward to seeing how her journey from lone scavenger with little hope to Jedi would go, but not now, she hasn't 'earned' any emotional investment in he story, as she just has super powers right off the bat, no real struggle at all.

The is a story arc in the animated series Clone Wars that is much better than anything in this, with much deeper character development (and this is a cartoon, FFS)! And that is Asajj Ventress, an apprentice of a Sith who is betrayed by her master and what follows is her story of (semi) redemption. Far more satisfying than anything in this hollow excuse for a movie. And, unlike this new movie, it's rewarding to watch more than once.

ETA - According to Forbes, the Last Jedi has had a 77% ticket plunge!
https://www.forbes.com/sites/robcain/2017/12/23/th...

Edited by chris watton on Sunday 24th December 08:14

[r11co]

chris watton said:

ETA - According to Forbes, the Last Jedi has had a 77% ticket plunge!
https://www.forbes.com/sites/robcain/2017/12/23/th...

That's pretty much it then.

My worry now is that after panic meetings in DIsney offices Johnson will be told to sort it out and he will backtrack even further than he has already and deliver us a 'see, I was just kidding with you' third installment.

[gregs656]

r11co said:

That's pretty much it then.

My worry now is that after panic meetings in DIsney offices Johnson will be told to sort it out and he will backtrack even further than he has already and deliver us a 'see, I was just kidding with you' third installment.

Did you read the article? It's not particularly negative, for example

'The Last Jedi was always going to be the most frontloaded Star Wars movie thus far. And it was never going to honestly compete, especially not overseas (where Star Wars is less of a religion), with The Force Awakens. There is little reason to argue (yet) that these numbers are representative of a troubling crash.'

and ending with

'The Force is still strong with The Last Jedi, and it's still going how we thought it would.'

[zygalski]

It grossed well over $600 million in the first week of release.
Box office-wise, TLJ is already a resounding success.

Edited by zygalski on Sunday 24th December 10:16