A very English scandal - Jeremy Thorpe
Discussion
gooner1 said:
Has anyone changed their mind, or for those who weren't aware of the case before, come to
their own decision on the verdict?
I can't recall what I thought at the time to be honest - I was a bit too young to be interested. But it's clear from the Peter Cook sketch that public opinion was on the side of guilty - and that the jury were misled.their own decision on the verdict?
Viewing it now - 100% guilty.
Excellent Sunday night fare - very enjoyable.
They really cast the net wide for the casting - Betty Spencer, Neil from Inbetweeners, Beloche from Raiders of the Lost Ark, that other bloke who is in everything (Edward VIII / Alan Bennett - take your pick) etc etc. Even Patrick Marber as prosecution QC (a writer/performer from The Day Today etc).
As for the verdict...just another establishment fix, no?
They really cast the net wide for the casting - Betty Spencer, Neil from Inbetweeners, Beloche from Raiders of the Lost Ark, that other bloke who is in everything (Edward VIII / Alan Bennett - take your pick) etc etc. Even Patrick Marber as prosecution QC (a writer/performer from The Day Today etc).
As for the verdict...just another establishment fix, no?
The Mad Monk said:
The Don of Croy said:
As for the verdict...just another establishment fix, no?
No.The jury decided to vote the way they did. 12 good men and women.
They could have found them all guilty.
ClaphamGT3 said:
Quite - it is enormously patronising to suggest that, just because of the flowery vocab in a judges summing up, a jury of 12 would be swayed
I've sat on a jury and it's very, very conceivable that a judge could influence a jury, which is why of course they are prohibited from doing exactly that. It was a bit more than flowery language; he described the main prosecution witnesses as a bunch of liars and reprobates, and held Thorpe up as some paragon of virtue, which he clearly was not. Juries can and do get it wrong; Thorpe is innocent as far as the law is concerned but that doesn't preclude a close examination of all the evidence, both then and now, and reaching a different conclusion.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
On the panorama documentary, Jeremy Thorpe and his wife emerging victorious from the Old Bailey looked just like Hugh Grant and Monica Dolan in the TV series. Great casting.
Yes absolutely. One of my favourite Hugh Grant performances. I particularly liked the sense of shock around the court as the judge did his summing up.
ClaphamGT3 said:
Quite- it is enormously patronising to suggest that, just because of the flowery vocab in a judges summing up, a jury of 12 would be swayed
IMHO,, it is equally as patronising to suggest that a "flowery" summing up by a judgecouldn't influence a jury,
Especially in an era where some members of the public
held Judges and their like, in much higher esteem than they do now.
Thorpe was found not guilty in the eyes of the Law.
The eyes of the public are a different organ altogether.
gooner1 said:
IMHO,, it is equally as patronising to suggest that a "flowery" summing up by a judge
couldn't influence a jury,
Especially in an era where some members of the public
held Judges and their like, in much higher esteem than they do now.
Thorpe was found not guilty in the eyes of the Law.
The eyes of the public are a different organ altogether.
I agree, from what we saw, I don’t think the prosecution had proved that there was a conspiracy to murder “beyond all reasonable doubt”. A Judge’s final summing up always tend to point out which points are relevant to the case and which should be ignored.couldn't influence a jury,
Especially in an era where some members of the public
held Judges and their like, in much higher esteem than they do now.
Thorpe was found not guilty in the eyes of the Law.
The eyes of the public are a different organ altogether.
It came down to the fact that a man completely unknown to Thorpe shot a dog. Everyone else could easily be described as an unreliable witness. Chequebook journalism was normal in those days and probably ruined the case.
gooner1 said:
ClaphamGT3 said:
Quite- it is enormously patronising to suggest that, just because of the flowery vocab in a judges summing up, a jury of 12 would be swayed
IMHO,, it is equally as patronising to suggest that a "flowery" summing up by a judgecouldn't influence a jury,
Especially in an era where some members of the public
held Judges and their like, in much higher esteem than they do now.
Thorpe was found not guilty in the eyes of the Law.
The eyes of the public are a different organ altogether.
However, it's rather like the OJ case for me. It's completely obvious what actually happened but can understand the juries verdict.
mattyn1 said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
On the panorama documentary, Jeremy Thorpe and his wife emerging victorious from the Old Bailey looked just like Hugh Grant and Monica Dolan in the TV series. Great casting.
Yes absolutely. One of my favourite Hugh Grant performances. I particularly liked the sense of shock around the court as the judge did his summing up.
Bessell: I did my bit, I lectured on classical music to the troops.
Carman: Ahhh, no wonder we won!
Grant's finest performance since About A Boy.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
mattyn1 said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
On the panorama documentary, Jeremy Thorpe and his wife emerging victorious from the Old Bailey looked just like Hugh Grant and Monica Dolan in the TV series. Great casting.
Yes absolutely. One of my favourite Hugh Grant performances. I particularly liked the sense of shock around the court as the judge did his summing up.
Bessell: I did my bit, I lectured on classical music to the troops.
Carman: Ahhh, no wonder we won!
Grant's finest performance since About A Boy.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jun/10/j...
Quite an interesting piece
In the interests of fairness I feel I should apologise for it being a Guardian Link
Quite an interesting piece
In the interests of fairness I feel I should apologise for it being a Guardian Link
Halb said:
finally watched the documentary.
what a rotten edifice the whole British establishment is/was/is
Quite.what a rotten edifice the whole British establishment is/was/is
But then again, ancient Greece, Rome etc all rotten too. Then there's modern day politics and wherever you look, there's too many oddballs getting too much power to do too many illegal/immoral things.
And people wonder why cynicism is rife.
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