The Great Escape. Iv been lied too.

[Matt172]

worth picking up a copy of this, very good reading

http://www.rafbf.org/books/underthewire.htm

[FourWheelDrift]

So Cavendish "the Surveyor" was Kate Humble's grandad, Stan Carter.

[Eric Mc]

Strangely Brown said:

Eric Mc said:

Of course, the Steve McQueen character is the one major fiction of the whole story. Still a great movie though.

Really? Only that?

There are lots of artistic embellishments - as you would expect in a film. However, as I said, the Hilts chracter and his exploited is the MAJOR fiction included as neither Hilts nor his motorcycle trip existed in real life.
It was the price the film company had to make to get McQueen into the film - he specifically wanted to include this motorcycle scene.

However, the overall event is true and lots of the incidents shown - particularly the planning of the escape and the actual digging of the tunnels is pretty close to what really happened.

[mrmaggit]

The men that were shot were shot in one's and two's, not machine-gunned in a field.

[Eric Mc]

The film would have lasted weeks if they showed that.

I can safely say that not a single movie supposedly based on real events in WW2 is 100% accurate. For example, two films which have always been praised for their accuracy and for sticking pretty closely to real events, "The Dambusters" and "A Bridge Too Far" - are both actually riddled with all sorts of incorrect aspects.

A film has to take short cuts, condense characters and events and possibly exaggerate the odd event in order to tell the story in a reasonable amount of time. In the end, what matters is that the "spirit" of the event and the times in which they occured is told correctly and that the viewers come away with a reasonable knowledge of what happened - and may be prompted to find out a bit more about the events depicted.

The main thing is that they don't twist the facts so much that the viewer will leave the cinema believing something happened one way when it actually didn't. Misleading WW2 films would include "U571" and "Pearl Harbor".

After all, as film critic John Brosnan used to say, "It's only a movie".

[Strangely Brown]

Eric Mc said:

The main thing is that they don't twist the facts so much that the viewer will leave the cinema believing something happened one way when it actually didn't.

Like American forces taking bridges that were actually taken by the British in A Bridge Too Far. History was "modified" because they felt that it would play better to an American audience that way.

Eric Mc said:

Misleading WW2 films would include "U571" and "Pearl Harbor".

"Misleading" is very gracious of you, Eric. Especially where U571 is concerned.

Eric Mc said:

After all, as film critic John Brosnan used to say, "It's only a movie".

It is, but since the majority of people get their history from the movies it can be argued that it is a great deal more than that. Americans used to be the key "offenders" in this respect but with the almost complete demise of history teaching in UK schools, it will become a major problem here too.

[JonRB]

Eric Mc said:

Misleading WW2 films would include "U571"

Don't get me started on that revisionist crap.

Talking of prices that have to be paid to get a film made; did you know that Memphis Belle was originally written as a story about RAF crews in Lancasters but the only way David Puttnam could get Warner Bros. to bankroll it was to make it about American crews in B-17s. Although did did manage to retain it being set in England.

[Eric Mc]

JonRB said:

Eric Mc said:

Misleading WW2 films would include "U571"

Don't get me started on that revisionist crap.

Talking of prices that have to be paid to get a film made; did you know that Memphis Belle was originally written as a story about RAF crews in Lancasters but the only way David Puttnam could get Warner Bros. to bankroll it was to make it about American crews in B-17s. Although did did manage to retain it being set in England.

And it's not a bad film either - although it too contains its fair share of inaccuracies and condensing of events.

As long as American finance continues to fund most mainstream films, I am afraid that this is always going to be an issue.

[shirt]

I'd recommend the book to anyone, cracking read:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Great-Escape-Cassell-Milit...

I think I bought my copy for £3 from HMV.

ETA: the author, Paul Brickhill, was an Aussie flyer interned at Stalag Luft III at the time of the escape and involved in the plans, but was barred from making the actual breakout due to claustrophobia.

Edited by shirt on Monday 17th August 13:45

[dreamz]

hahaha

i thought this too for a long time till i actually bought the dvd and saw that no one really escapes

[Eric Mc]

But some did - as in the real escape.

[shirt]

dreamz said:

hahaha

i thought this too for a long time till i actually bought the dvd and saw that no one really escapes

watch it properly next time then. 3 got away - 2 in a rowboat and 1 is helped by the resistance after the cafe shooting.

surely it wasn't just me who watches this every christmas?

[FourWheelDrift]

James Coburn's character got to Spain and Charles Bronson's character to Sweden matching 2 of the 3 who got away in real life.

wikipedia said:

Per Bergsland, Norwegian pilot of No. 332 Squadron RAF
Jens Müller, Norwegian pilot of No. 331 Squadron RAF
Bram van der Stok, Dutch pilot of No. 41 Squadron RAF

Bergsland and Müller made it to neutral Sweden first, by boat, while Van der Stok travelled through France before finding safety at a British consulate in Spain.

[aeropilot]

i remember said:

Spydaman said:

I think Bud Ekins drove the car in Bullitt too.

Nope, Steve did quite alot of the driving in that

Steve did do a lot of the driving in Bullitt, but Bud Ekins did drive the Mustang in the yumping sequence down Taylor St., as the film insurance wouldn't let McQueen do it as per The Great Escape.
Perversely, there is a brilliant photo of McQueen riding one of his Triumphs up the the closed off Taylor St during the filming of that sequence, with serious air under the bike and wearing no helmet, short sleeves and slacks etc

[Eric Mc]

WW2 prisoner of war camps have been a great inspiration for some cracking movies. Apart from The Great Escape, there's -

Stalag 17
The Wooden Horse
The Colditz Story
Chicken Run

[anonymous-user]

Eric Mc said:

WW2 prisoner of war camps have been a great inspiration for some cracking movies. Apart from The Great Escape, there's -

Chicken Run

Peter Mandleson had a good cameo as Mrs Tweedy.

[Eric Mc]

I stayed on a campsite last year which was managed by a chap who was the spitting image of Mr Tweedy.

[DBSV8]

mrmaggit said:

The men that were shot were shot in one's and two's, not machine-gunned in a field.

that was Malmedy Battle of the Bulge

Edited by DBSV8 on Tuesday 18th August 08:31

[Gillet]

I'm amazed at how many people haven't seen this movie, i remember watching it when i was about 7 years old, and must have watched it once a year since, absolute classic!

I do hate how American's always change the details of films so they look like the heroes, i get where they're coming from but a bit of historical accuracy wouldn't go amiss.

[Eric Mc]

The problem is that big budget films won't get made without American finance. That was true just as much 46 years ago as it is today. Therefore, an American angle had to be found - even if the real story didn't have one.

In regards to The Great Escape - not only did they want an Amerrican angle, they also wanted a Steve McQueen angle - and he insisted on putting in the motor bike sequence.

From a commercial and dramatic point of view, it was a winning combination. From an historical accuracy point of view, it wasn't so hot.

Edited by Eric Mc on Tuesday 18th August 14:08