Panorama - Poor America
Discussion
Just watched this, and appalled and amazed at the same time. This programme, which used to be so respected for its unbiased approach to major issues has virtually become a party political broadcast, even for the USA, never mind the UK. I'm bery sorry for the plight of many Americans, but can it be laid at Obama's door? Are we really saying that his administration has been worse than Bush/Clinton/Bush etc? Have you seen what might come after him?
I caught the last 10 minutes of it.
A while back I met some Americans who were very sure of their system and that no one goes without healthcare if they need it. This programme showed the exact opposite. If you ain't got the money then tough you can die.
In any civilised country there needs to be a social safety net - in the UK we have gone too far allowing people to choose it as a lifestyle in the US they haven't gone far enough and just ignore the issue. I am all for self reliance and get a job etc. but when you are told you have to spend 4x your annual income to get a medical condition treated then how do you do it? The insurance was equal to his total annual salary.
Those politicians standing up and the audience saying let the coma patient die - what a disgrace of humanity. I can guarantee if the patient was one of their loved ones they wouldn't be shouting it.
As for Obama being at fault I doubt that very much. This situation hasn't just appeared in the last 3 years it is as old as the USA itself. Part of the problem is the Health Insurance and Medical lobby, if you start giving out free health care then who will want to pay for the insurance.
A while back I met some Americans who were very sure of their system and that no one goes without healthcare if they need it. This programme showed the exact opposite. If you ain't got the money then tough you can die.
In any civilised country there needs to be a social safety net - in the UK we have gone too far allowing people to choose it as a lifestyle in the US they haven't gone far enough and just ignore the issue. I am all for self reliance and get a job etc. but when you are told you have to spend 4x your annual income to get a medical condition treated then how do you do it? The insurance was equal to his total annual salary.
Those politicians standing up and the audience saying let the coma patient die - what a disgrace of humanity. I can guarantee if the patient was one of their loved ones they wouldn't be shouting it.
As for Obama being at fault I doubt that very much. This situation hasn't just appeared in the last 3 years it is as old as the USA itself. Part of the problem is the Health Insurance and Medical lobby, if you start giving out free health care then who will want to pay for the insurance.
SLacKer said:
As for Obama being at fault I doubt that very much. This situation hasn't just appeared in the last 3 years it is as old as the USA itself. Part of the problem is the Health Insurance and Medical lobby, if you start giving out free health care then who will want to pay for the insurance.
It still happens here.I also caught the last bit, it didn't seem biased to me. I recall a doc a few years ago that pretty much showed the same thing, a percentage of American kids going hungry. The situation might be getting worse, but it is something that the USA doesn't seem to know or care to do anything about. The GoP person from (forget the state) didn't have an answer for the shanty towns and the people who are under skid row now. Tough love seemed to be the answer.
That element of America has been there for as long as the federal government stopped giving out land for free for people to live on. What is different at the minute is that people who are falling into poverty are white collar workers, which the chattering classes are finding particularly shocking because they look and act "like us".
The only reason it's office workers living on the streets is that nowhere near as many people work in factories, so they can't be laid off from those.
The only reason it's office workers living on the streets is that nowhere near as many people work in factories, so they can't be laid off from those.
Deva Link said:
I find the health care thing weird - a lot of American's seem genuinely terrified that they could end up with a health care system like ours.
OK, I know the NHS has issues, but it's not terrifyingly bad. Why is it pereived so badly by Americans?
"Give me Liberty or give me Death", as the saying goes. As it turns out this is one of the few situations where they can actually have their cake, and eat it. OK, I know the NHS has issues, but it's not terrifyingly bad. Why is it pereived so badly by Americans?
A federal healthcare system is unconstitutional - the power of the federal government over internal affairs is strictly limited. That's the "good" reason. The "bad" reason is that "Big Healthcare" has a very powerful lobby organisation that has managed to poison the debate.
pokethepope said:
The healthcare aspect was shocking, but the mum crying her eyes out because her son asked for a haircut and she said they couldn't afford it - why the f
k do they have a dog, cable tv, laptop, handheld games console and then claim to be so poor they can't eat?!?!
People do the same in this country. The poorest people in the UK seem to be the most likely to own a dog, smoke 40 a day and have Sky TV.k do they have a dog, cable tv, laptop, handheld games console and then claim to be so poor they can't eat?!?!/generalisation... but in part true.
pokethepope said:
The healthcare aspect was shocking, but the mum crying her eyes out because her son asked for a haircut and she said they couldn't afford it - why the fk do they have a dog, cable tv, laptop, handheld games console and then claim to be so poor they can't eat?!?!
Stupidity + cheap/careless credit.k do they have a dog, cable tv, laptop, handheld games console and then claim to be so poor they can't eat?!?!The practical answer is to buy a pair of scissors.
I knew about the healthcare situation there, but hadn't really seen the realities of it before. It seems to me the very opposite of a civilised society when citizens can die through lack of affordable healthcare. The debate where no-one would say that the person in a coma should have a chance at life unless they could pay for it shocked me. The queues for the free consultations were amazing as well.
You will get medical treatment without insurance, but it is expensive. My Aunt had a ruptured appendix, had to spend 3 days in hospital and was discharged with a $22,000 bill. They set up a payment plan that is manageable, but she will most likely be paying off the debt for the rest of her life.
A friend had a nasty motorcycle crash, needed an air ambulance and multiple surgeries. Last time he mentioned it the total was in excess of $154,000. There was more to come too as the physios had yet to present their bill.
You don't know how many people I encounter that think America is some sort of promised land and would love to live there, can't imagine why I left etc.
A friend had a nasty motorcycle crash, needed an air ambulance and multiple surgeries. Last time he mentioned it the total was in excess of $154,000. There was more to come too as the physios had yet to present their bill.
You don't know how many people I encounter that think America is some sort of promised land and would love to live there, can't imagine why I left etc.
Deva Link said:
I find the health care thing weird - a lot of American's seem genuinely terrified that they could end up with a health care system like ours.
OK, I know the NHS has issues, but it's not terrifyingly bad. Why is it pereived so badly by Americans?
I think the America healthcare quality is better than the UK by some margin, obviously good if you have insurance etc. OK, I know the NHS has issues, but it's not terrifyingly bad. Why is it pereived so badly by Americans?
One is a compulsory State insurance policy, the other is voluntary if you can afford it. Lower tax in the US means you have more money to spend on such things.
We are used to 'free' everything, but there is no rule that says somebody with no money can have a £50,000 operation paid for by everybody else. As our population rises and medical treatments get more complex and more expensive, where will it end?
We are used to 'free' everything, but there is no rule that says somebody with no money can have a £50,000 operation paid for by everybody else. As our population rises and medical treatments get more complex and more expensive, where will it end?
Mr Gear said:
pokethepope said:
The healthcare aspect was shocking, but the mum crying her eyes out because her son asked for a haircut and she said they couldn't afford it - why the fk do they have a dog, cable tv, laptop, handheld games console and then claim to be so poor they can't eat?!?!
People do the same in this country. The poorest people in the UK seem to be the most likely to own a dog, smoke 40 a day and have Sky TV.k do they have a dog, cable tv, laptop, handheld games console and then claim to be so poor they can't eat?!?!/generalisation... but in part true.
Simpo Two said:
We are used to 'free' everything, but there is no rule that says somebody with no money can have a £50,000 operation paid for by everybody else. As our population rises and medical treatments get more complex and more expensive, where will it end?
I think that is the difference between insured health care in the US and our free NHS - treatment (possibly over-treatment) there is available for the asking, here it's rationed by Doctors avoiding treatments that are expensive, or by waiting lists.Gassing Station | TV, Film, Video Streaming & Radio | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff