Discussion
This looks rather good.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2713180/
First time they've been able to get the only working Tiger into a film.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2713180/
First time they've been able to get the only working Tiger into a film.
There's some interesting stuff on the Tank Museum's website - links to videos etc and info on their new exhibit about being involved with the making of the film.
http://www.tankmuseum.org/ixbin/indexplus?record=A...
http://www.tankmuseum.org/ixbin/indexplus?record=A...
irocfan said:
relative tank sizes...
Crickey, never realised the Panther was comparable in size to the Tiger. Always think of the "Tiger fever" that Allied crews were subject to.The length of the German cannon compared to the 6 pounder or 75mm in the Allied tanks shows why there was such a discrepancy in muzzle velocities too until you get to the Firefly with the 77mm
Steve_W said:
Crickey, never realised the Panther was comparable in size to the Tiger. Always think of the "Tiger fever" that Allied crews were subject to.
The length of the German cannon compared to the 6 pounder or 75mm in the Allied tanks shows why there was such a discrepancy in muzzle velocities too until you get to the Firefly with the 77mm
The overall dimensions of the Tiger v the Panther were irrelevant it was all about the overall weight difference which was mostly accounted for by the Tiger's better armour protection.In general that 'Tiger fever' was well deserved owing to the combination of the range and hitting power of the 88 mm gun combined with its amount of armour protection v its US and British opposition.Although luckily the Firefly obviously helped in that regard.The length of the German cannon compared to the 6 pounder or 75mm in the Allied tanks shows why there was such a discrepancy in muzzle velocities too until you get to the Firefly with the 77mm
The sad issue for allied tank crews is that the only thing stopping them from having the Centurion and Pershing/Super Pershing in time to meet it was the amount of cash the allied governments were willing to spend.
Edited by XJ Flyer on Monday 20th October 02:35
irocfan said:
errmmmm actually XJ - the Panther's 75mm was a better gun and, IIRC, is a basis for quite a few modern tank guns
Arguably better in the case of it's muzzle velocity and penetration but the Panther didn't have the 'combination' of gun and armour protection of the Tiger.In addition to which the larger caliber 88mm gun could hit things at longer ranges with the better weight of the larger shell being able to knock out uselessly armoured allied tanks without needing to penetrate their armour but by just knocking off razor sharp hot chunks of it on the inside.IE APCR/APCBC rounds weighing over 7/10 kgs are going to have a bigger punch when they hit something than ones weighing 4.75/7.2 kgs.
The result usually being the that the inside of a Sherman looked like someone had gone berserk with a chain saw assuming that the hot flying metal didn't also set all the ammunition on fire.
In which case assuming anyone was unlucky enough to still be alive but too badly injured to get out that just left the option of taking the easy way out with a pistol which they hopefully had at hand anf if they were lucky to at least have one good arm and hand left to use it with.
The fact is the Tiger ( and the 88 mm anti tank gun ) deserved their fearsome reputation which was earn't by bitter experience of unfortunate allied tank crews,and/or those poor recovery/maintenance crews,who had to deal with the results of putting a cheap tin can,in the form of the Sherman,up against proper machinery built on a money no object basis.Which probably explains why the basis for most modern tank guns since went along the lines of caliber being just as important as velocity.Hence the successive increase in caliber in the development of British tank guns from the 17 pounder in the Firefly and the 20 pounder in the early Centurions then the 105 mm L7 and the 120 mm L11.All following the principles set out by the '88' not the 75mm KwK42.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordnance_QF_20_pounde...
Edited by XJ Flyer on Monday 20th October 17:02
Edited by XJ Flyer on Monday 20th October 17:04
Edited by XJ Flyer on Monday 20th October 17:57
Edited by XJ Flyer on Monday 20th October 18:08
MrMagoo said:
Anyone care to reccomend some reading material specifically about first hand accounts on what it was like being in an armoured division? A book that gives you an insight into tank warfare and what life was really like for the crew, Many thanks.
If you want a modern day(ish) look into life in an armoured regiment have a read of this http://www.amazon.co.uk/Try-Not-Laugh-Sergeant-Maj...
A lot of the extras and cast on fury are Armoured Corps serving and Ex serving. A lot of my old regiment took part in it.
MrMagoo said:
Anyone care to reccomend some reading material specifically about first hand accounts on what it was like being in an armoured division? A book that gives you an insight into tank warfare and what life was really like for the crew, Many thanks.
Yes I can. Possibly the best such book written is 'By Tank into Normandy' by Stuart Hills, a young Tank commander in the Sherwood Rangers who fought from D-Day to the German surrender. Gives a hugely convincing portrayal of armoured warfare in NW Europe in WW2. Also rather grim descriptions of what happens when it all goes tits-up in a burning Sherman.Joey Ramone said:
MrMagoo said:
Anyone care to reccomend some reading material specifically about first hand accounts on what it was like being in an armoured division? A book that gives you an insight into tank warfare and what life was really like for the crew, Many thanks.
Yes I can. Possibly the best such book written is 'By Tank into Normandy' by Stuart Hills, a young Tank commander in the Sherwood Rangers who fought from D-Day to the German surrender. Gives a hugely convincing portrayal of armoured warfare in NW Europe in WW2. Also rather grim descriptions of what happens when it all goes tits-up in a burning Sherman.I was going to mention this one: "D-Day to Victory: The Diaries of a British Tank Commander" by Sgt Trevor Greenwood. It's very much a personal account, with much concern about food, washing, shaving etc rather than the technicalities of operating a tank which I would prefer, but it's interesting nevertheless.
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