We have no money
Discussion
But the gubbermint is to fund a permanent Holocaust memorial to the tune of £50 million in London.
Now there is a documentary series called the world at war, one episode of deals with the atrocity of the Holocaust leaving nothing to the imagination.
This should be compulsory viewing for all.
There is also an episode on the mechanism of turning the German people into compliant supporter's of the NAZI'S.
That should also be compulsory viewing.
None of which would cost £50 million...and would be far more accessible for the UK as a whole.
Now there is a documentary series called the world at war, one episode of deals with the atrocity of the Holocaust leaving nothing to the imagination.
This should be compulsory viewing for all.
There is also an episode on the mechanism of turning the German people into compliant supporter's of the NAZI'S.
That should also be compulsory viewing.
None of which would cost £50 million...and would be far more accessible for the UK as a whole.
50 million? Eeeeeek!
But, without actually reading the article properly, wouldn't it be possible to invite applications from schools to design the monument, after the kids have spent some time learning about the history of it, then to get the winning design commissioned for less than £50million?
Just thinking about this the other day, how the fk did the Germans (and the rest) allow this to happen? Just the idea of organised extermination of men, women and children in such amounts, all the hard work that went into organising it, the planning..........terrifying really.
But, without actually reading the article properly, wouldn't it be possible to invite applications from schools to design the monument, after the kids have spent some time learning about the history of it, then to get the winning design commissioned for less than £50million?
Just thinking about this the other day, how the fk did the Germans (and the rest) allow this to happen? Just the idea of organised extermination of men, women and children in such amounts, all the hard work that went into organising it, the planning..........terrifying really.
Mojocvh said:
But the gubbermint is to fund a permanent Holocaust memorial to the tune of £50 million in London.
Now there is a documentary series called the world at war, one episode of deals with the atrocity of the Holocaust leaving nothing to the imagination.
This should be compulsory viewing for all.
There is also an episode on the mechanism of turning the German people into compliant supporter's of the NAZI'S.
That should also be compulsory viewing.
None of which would cost £50 million...and would be far more accessible for the UK as a whole.
Not against a memorial as such but it's the last thing the taxpayers in general should be paying for now. Why can't we follow the lead of, eg the Miami memorial?Now there is a documentary series called the world at war, one episode of deals with the atrocity of the Holocaust leaving nothing to the imagination.
This should be compulsory viewing for all.
There is also an episode on the mechanism of turning the German people into compliant supporter's of the NAZI'S.
That should also be compulsory viewing.
None of which would cost £50 million...and would be far more accessible for the UK as a whole.
That's a very moving memorial that stops you in your tracks, even the address is significant 1933-1945 Meridian Avenue, but it was built by a private non profit organisation.
longblackcoat said:
jogon said:
Does the £50m include the full time security probably required to stop a certain sector of our society from defacing it every day.
Which sector would that be?http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-i...
£50m is a lot of money but one man's waste of money is another man's valuable memorial.
Also, isn't complaining that the state is spending £50m on something comparative to complaining that your company spends £5000 on stationery each year?
A lot, but not a lot in the big scheme of things.
Also, isn't complaining that the state is spending £50m on something comparative to complaining that your company spends £5000 on stationery each year?
A lot, but not a lot in the big scheme of things.
We should not forget the Holocaust and the lessons we should have, but I doubt really have, learnt from it but I do have to ask WHY?
We have the National Holocaust Centre already. There are many places in the Country where you can learn about it, let alone what you can see online.
There are far more appropriate memorials in far more appropriate locations that give far more meaning and gravitas to the subject than a lump of stone in a country that never experienced the true effects of it until we started to liberate some of the camps, and even then only by proxy.
I'd almost venture to say that it is as necessary to build this as it is to build a memorial in London to the victims of Uncle Joe's camps.
We have the National Holocaust Centre already. There are many places in the Country where you can learn about it, let alone what you can see online.
There are far more appropriate memorials in far more appropriate locations that give far more meaning and gravitas to the subject than a lump of stone in a country that never experienced the true effects of it until we started to liberate some of the camps, and even then only by proxy.
I'd almost venture to say that it is as necessary to build this as it is to build a memorial in London to the victims of Uncle Joe's camps.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
By children do you mean those nearing the adult range, 15-18 years. I believe it is a very good idea and hope it will be implemented.The German's were offered a prosperous future and idyllic lifestyle by a strong charismatic leader who was an incredible orator. Hitler knew what the people wanted to hear and he offered that to them, little did they know of his 'other personality' filled with hatred. The implementation of the death camps was a gradual affair starting with the venom spouted from the sadistic followers of hitler. Remember these people were completely void of what we take to be normal human personalities. Hounding out, rounding up, compartmentalise, transport to workhouses which evolved into the dreadful holocaust.
The ordinary German population said that they did not realize or understand what was becoming of the Jewish people?
Others with a deeper knowledge and better understanding I hope will post.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler_Youth
There are documentaries online about the methods used to indoctrinate and de-humanise children by the NAZI'S.
There are documentaries online about the methods used to indoctrinate and de-humanise children by the NAZI'S.
My friend's future son-in-law is 21. A ordinary, state educated lad who is able to hold an intelligent conversation.
I was speaking to him about the Battle of Britain. He didn't know what the Battle of Britain was. Further discussion revealed that he didn't know that World War 2 had even happened! I asked why. The reply, they didn't teach us about it at school. Despite the increased access we have to information (internet etc.) I don't think his experience is unusual.
I was speaking to him about the Battle of Britain. He didn't know what the Battle of Britain was. Further discussion revealed that he didn't know that World War 2 had even happened! I asked why. The reply, they didn't teach us about it at school. Despite the increased access we have to information (internet etc.) I don't think his experience is unusual.
B.J.W said:
My friend's future son-in-law is 21. A ordinary, state educated lad who is able to hold an intelligent conversation.
I was speaking to him about the Battle of Britain. He didn't know what the Battle of Britain was. Further discussion revealed that he didn't know that World War 2 had even happened! I asked why. The reply, they didn't teach us about it at school. Despite the increased access we have to information (internet etc.) I don't think his experience is unusual.
That is both astonishing and depressing in equal measure.I was speaking to him about the Battle of Britain. He didn't know what the Battle of Britain was. Further discussion revealed that he didn't know that World War 2 had even happened! I asked why. The reply, they didn't teach us about it at school. Despite the increased access we have to information (internet etc.) I don't think his experience is unusual.
crankedup said:
By children do you mean those nearing the adult range, 15-18 years. I believe it is a very good idea and hope it will be implemented.
The German's were offered a prosperous future and idyllic lifestyle by a strong charismatic leader who was an incredible orator. Hitler knew what the people wanted to hear and he offered that to them, little did they know of his 'other personality' filled with hatred. The implementation of the death camps was a gradual affair starting with the venom spouted from the sadistic followers of hitler. Remember these people were completely void of what we take to be normal human personalities. Hounding out, rounding up, compartmentalise, transport to workhouses which evolved into the dreadful holocaust.
The ordinary German population said that they did not realize or understand what was becoming of the Jewish people?
Others with a deeper knowledge and better understanding I hope will post.
Depends on how you are defining "the ordinary German population"The German's were offered a prosperous future and idyllic lifestyle by a strong charismatic leader who was an incredible orator. Hitler knew what the people wanted to hear and he offered that to them, little did they know of his 'other personality' filled with hatred. The implementation of the death camps was a gradual affair starting with the venom spouted from the sadistic followers of hitler. Remember these people were completely void of what we take to be normal human personalities. Hounding out, rounding up, compartmentalise, transport to workhouses which evolved into the dreadful holocaust.
The ordinary German population said that they did not realize or understand what was becoming of the Jewish people?
Others with a deeper knowledge and better understanding I hope will post.
One criticism I do have on such memorials as this is that those with only a limited knowledge of history might think German crimes were restricted only to Jews. As well as the killing of Jews the Germans also regarded Slavs as an inferior race to be either slaughtered or enslaved and very numerous atrocities were committed by "ordinary" German soldiers on the eastern front against the civilian population, whether Jewish or Polish, Ukrainian, Russian etc.
It is also the case that this cannot all be blamed on Hitler. The belief in the "race war" against the Slavs was also widespread among the leadership of the Austro-Hungarian empire and German in the first world war. Thousands of Serbian civilians were slaughtered by Austrian forces as a precursor of the far more widespread killing in WW2.
jogon said:
longblackcoat said:
jogon said:
Does the £50m include the full time security probably required to stop a certain sector of our society from defacing it every day.
Which sector would that be?http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-i...
Also please bear in mind that 'they' can do and say what they like as it isn't racist, inciting violence or in anyway anti religious. A shame we do not share the same laws.
Grumfutock said:
jogon said:
longblackcoat said:
jogon said:
Does the £50m include the full time security probably required to stop a certain sector of our society from defacing it every day.
Which sector would that be?http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-i...
Also please bear in mind that 'they' can do and say what they like as it isn't racist, inciting violence or in anyway anti religious. A shame we do not share the same laws.
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/01/27/pro-eu-...
What ever next?
jogon said:
Does the £50m include the full time security probably required to stop a certain sector of our society from defacing it every day.
The Holocaust memorial in Hyde Park and the Holocaust memorial centre outside Nottingham seem to function okay without being attacked or defaced.Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff