Brexit Poll 1/2/16
Poll: Brexit Poll 1/2/16
Total Members Polled: 1469
Discussion
For free trade we can just join TTIP, no need for the EU.
Why we should get out.
The EU is massively corrupt. Most money it spends is just some form of rent extraction.
The EU is socialist. It is anti wealth generation and seeks to punish success whilst rewarding failure.
It is stuffed full of clientism and corporatism on a breathtaking scale.
The EU took a million Muslims migrants last year, heading for 3 million this year. We want none of the crime and economic and social harm that this brings.
It's aim is to create a superstate, this means British culture will be replaced with cultural Marxism.
Why should hard working Brits pay for Club Med to retire at 50 and pay no tax?
Many policies are forced on us that we don't want because of majority voting in the council of ministers. Most vetoes are against us.
etc etc etc
Why we should get out.
The EU is massively corrupt. Most money it spends is just some form of rent extraction.
The EU is socialist. It is anti wealth generation and seeks to punish success whilst rewarding failure.
It is stuffed full of clientism and corporatism on a breathtaking scale.
The EU took a million Muslims migrants last year, heading for 3 million this year. We want none of the crime and economic and social harm that this brings.
It's aim is to create a superstate, this means British culture will be replaced with cultural Marxism.
Why should hard working Brits pay for Club Med to retire at 50 and pay no tax?
Many policies are forced on us that we don't want because of majority voting in the council of ministers. Most vetoes are against us.
etc etc etc
I was a stay in Europe vote on the last poll, this time am definitely leaning towards leaving.
This is nothing against Europe, as I do like visiting various parts of it and SWBO is half French. However, I do not think we fit within the Europe that is being built, and if we continue to stay there it'll damage rather than enrich us.
Bringing together complex economies, different languages and differing education levels into one entity is fraught with difficulty and I'm dubious that this is going to be within our best interests - or at least within my lifetime (and I'm still in my twenties).
I'm up for free trade with Europe, visa-less travel for tourism and even easier access for EU people to gain work VISAs than it would be for those further afield. However, the controls to be in place and the sovereignty to be on our own shores that cannot be overruled by those in other countries.
This is nothing against Europe, as I do like visiting various parts of it and SWBO is half French. However, I do not think we fit within the Europe that is being built, and if we continue to stay there it'll damage rather than enrich us.
Bringing together complex economies, different languages and differing education levels into one entity is fraught with difficulty and I'm dubious that this is going to be within our best interests - or at least within my lifetime (and I'm still in my twenties).
I'm up for free trade with Europe, visa-less travel for tourism and even easier access for EU people to gain work VISAs than it would be for those further afield. However, the controls to be in place and the sovereignty to be on our own shores that cannot be overruled by those in other countries.
Mr Cameroon has spent 3 weeks trying to get us a better deal, Mrs Thatcher won us a few opt outs.
But as for the rest of the time our leaders have lead me to be believe they have just gone on with what the EU wants.
I know this probably is not the actual case but that is the impression I'm left with.
But as for the rest of the time our leaders have lead me to be believe they have just gone on with what the EU wants.
I know this probably is not the actual case but that is the impression I'm left with.
Leaning to vote to stay in until I see what the deal with the EU is and what governments exit strategy is if the vote is to leave. I have seen a lot of assumptions about what the government would do but I haven't seen anything about what the government will actually do. They wont publish that until they have a deal from the EU and start the referendum process.
plasticpig said:
Leaning to vote to stay in until I see what the deal with the EU is and what governments exit strategy is if the vote is to leave.
I don't really care what deal Cameron gets from the EU, I'll be voting to leave.As for the current deal being negotiated, as far I can see the only tangible component is the one about no in-work benefits for EU migrants for 4 years. Has anyone actually quantified the total saving this actually makes for the UK? Can't help feeling that tax credits for EU migrants over 4 years is 10% of bugger all in the scheme of things, yet it's being hailed as a huge concession that's somehow going to solve all our problems in one fell swoop.
I was under the 'leaning towards in' camp, now I submitted the 'leaning towards out' option.
This has mostly been swayed by any doubts I have had about the corruption and political differences amongst the EU nations. I am not anti-immigration nor against giving generous aid to people of all backgrounds, but the handling of the recent immigration crisis has cemented my concerns. This combined with the somewhat dismissive nature of the EU towards any sort of reform for David Cameron is my biggest fear.
Whilst it'll no doubt lead to another Scottish independence deal, who probably want to remain part of the EU and it'll no doubt cause a financial and economic wobble for us, I believe in the long run (in terms of my and my families expectations, not hundreds of years!) I think we'd be better off with more freedom.
Even if that freedom means we somehow create more red tape and bureaucracy, which I doubt, so be it.
This has mostly been swayed by any doubts I have had about the corruption and political differences amongst the EU nations. I am not anti-immigration nor against giving generous aid to people of all backgrounds, but the handling of the recent immigration crisis has cemented my concerns. This combined with the somewhat dismissive nature of the EU towards any sort of reform for David Cameron is my biggest fear.
Whilst it'll no doubt lead to another Scottish independence deal, who probably want to remain part of the EU and it'll no doubt cause a financial and economic wobble for us, I believe in the long run (in terms of my and my families expectations, not hundreds of years!) I think we'd be better off with more freedom.
Even if that freedom means we somehow create more red tape and bureaucracy, which I doubt, so be it.
What's the story with VAT on food coming in? I couldn't get a definitive answer when googling. I suspect they're purposely keeping it vague until we've voted to stay in before our weekly shop instantly jumping by 20%, right? "But they say it'll only be 5%." Do you believe them? And 5% is still more than 0%.
Edit: Also, why does nobody mention the millions we pay daily to be part of the club?
Edit: Also, why does nobody mention the millions we pay daily to be part of the club?
Edited by Hoofy on Monday 1st February 15:50
I would be happy to be part of a European Superstate if it was run along proper, sensible capitalist lines.
The current mess, however, is less palatable.
One thing that is swaying me towards voting to leave is the thought that the SNP might then start pushing for another referendum on leaving the UK. Getting shot of Scotland would be worth a bit of pain on leaving the EU.
The current mess, however, is less palatable.
One thing that is swaying me towards voting to leave is the thought that the SNP might then start pushing for another referendum on leaving the UK. Getting shot of Scotland would be worth a bit of pain on leaving the EU.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff