The British should bail out the Russians apparently.

[beanbag]

It's owned by Russians, yet the British have been asked to bail it out!?!?!!?

WTF!!!!?!?

http://www.iht.com/articles/reuters/2009/02/23/bus...

Why the fk don't the sodding Russians bail it out!?!?!? fking unbelievable.

This has riled me right up the fking wall.....

[sone]

It is a loan they are after not a hand out. suppose it depends on what kind of collateral they can offer!
Same with the Jaguar, Ta Ta were after a guarantee of of finance again not a gift.

[Nobody You Know]

sone said:

It is a loan they are after not a hand out. suppose it depends on what kind of collateral they can offer!
Same with the Jaguar, Ta Ta were after a guarantee of of finance again not a gift.

Yes exactly unfortunately people are far to gruntingly stupid to realise this and get 'Jeremy Vine Syndrome' and just start huffing and puffing about bailouts and foreign companies raping our daughters.

I tried to explain the truth about the JLR situation until I was blue in the face (joke intended) but it was like banging my head against a brick wall. As is often the case with PH people don't read the OP and then just rant and rave incorrect rubbish

[off_again]

Ah, our loverly media strikes again.

The parent company maybe Russian (or Indian, French or even German), but the way that the company is structured is to be a semi-separate company. You need to do this for a number of reasons, such as tax and liabilities and its expected to be the case. Of course the parent company could hand some corporate loans or guarnatees, but if the parent is having problems then this comes down to a bigger question - do you destabilise and risk the bigger company for a smaller sub-company? Of course, there is tax and liabilities to be considered here...

So, yes, it is easier for the sub-company to request assistance from the local country. It is cheaper, simpler and doesn't risk the parent. Of course, the parent company could just say 'sod it' and cur the whole thing off - I mean, do you risk everything on a van manufacturer in the midlands? Would you? Anyway, its a request for financing and not money directly.

Of course, lets never let the truth get in the way of a good story or headline eh?

[emicen]

I will bail out russia in exchange for a couple of hot blondes as security...

Anyways, as above, its not a hand out, its a request for a loan, big difference.

[beanbag]

Why should our government even grant them a loan?

Surely the Russian government should be responsible for this?

[Zod]

History of the Russian oligarchs:

man cons lots of ordinary Russians to sell him their privatisation rights for very little and acquires majority stake in large company. Floats company to obtain valuation of his net worth. Using this multi-billion valuation, borrows billions to indulge in billionaire lifestyle and buy trophy assets. Downturn comes, company worth much less, banks want more security for the loaned money/their money back. Oligarchs demand money from Russian government and now from us.

Answer should be: "fk you".

[sone]

beanbag said:

Why should our government even grant them a loan?

Surely the Russian government should be responsible for this?

So we just sack the workers and pay the unemployment benefit for the next few years, somebody else can make the vans when demand returns. I know it's not ideal but perhaps a damaged limitation excercise.
Beside if they are good for it, its a win win situation.

Edited by sone on Monday 23 February 13:17

[TehMonkey]

LDV vans are produced in the UK, therefore contribute to our balance of payments and economic growth. I'm also guessing the majority of workers are British. Therefore it should be us to bail them out via a loan in return for assets or equity.

[beanbag]

sone said:

beanbag said:

Why should our government even grant them a loan?

Surely the Russian government should be responsible for this?

So we just sack the workers and pay the unemployment benefit for the next few years, somebody else can make the vans and when demand returns. I know it's not ideal but perhaps a damaged limitation excercise.
Beside if they are good for it, its a win win situation.

It's almost like Microsoft Russia going out of business and then asking the Russian government to bail them out.....

Apart from funding a 100ft mega-yacht in the Caribbean, the Maybach and funding the Russian bh wife, I don't see this bailout lasting much longer than a year until another is asked for and first one "written off".

I know a lot of Russians living in Vienna. (They seem to like it here), and I know very few who obtained their original business through legitimate means post the downfall of Communism. In fact, they openly gloat about it and laugh about leeching off the EU as much as possible.

For this reason I have a lot of contempt for them in general. Perhaps this is a sweeping statement to make but I accept there is the exception to this rule and there are a lot of good Russian business persons out there. I've just yet to meet them.

[Ozzie Osmond]

In the global truck market LDV is about as relevant as the new Longbridge MGF in the world of sports cars. There is absolutely no point whatsoever propping it up with your money, my money or anyone else's money.

[marsred]

hora said:

LDV's sales are falling for many reasons not just a recession?!!

Has anyone, for example, seen an LDV van recently? Its like van technology and design has stood still.

(I should point out they may be technologically advanced underneath, but they look like three bricks with wheels and I won't let truth get in the way of my rant).

[greygoose]

TehMonkey said:

LDV vans are produced in the UK, therefore contribute to our balance of payments and economic growth. I'm also guessing the majority of workers are British. Therefore it should be us to bail them out via a loan in return for assets or equity.

If the company isn't viable then what's the point, you're just going to throw money away?

Some businesses are too weak to bother trying to save, the taxpayer cannot save every company.

[Durruti]

Sling yer 'ook you Russian Ponce !!

Well, not quite how it was put but still - no loan for LDV

http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7904918.st...

Best of luck to all affected.

[E31Shrew]

Apparently they were given £24 million a couple of years back. IIRC theyre only asking for £30m which compared with other bank 'life saving' measures is pretty small beer

[bitwrx]

beanbag said:

It's owned by Russians, yet the British have been asked to bail it out!?!?!!?

WTF!!!!?!?

http://www.iht.com/articles/reuters/2009/02/23/bus...

Why the fk don't the sodding Russians bail it out!?!?!? fking unbelievable.

This has riled me right up the fking wall.....

Govt lend them £30mil. They can then afford to pay their 6000 workers say £20,000 each. Direct and indirect taxes mean that 60% of this goes straight back to the govt. 40% gets spent in the local economy by the employees, 60% of which goes straight back to the govt in taxes.

So, 6000*20000 = £120mil, govt gets 72mil back
The other 48mil supports 48/20000 = 2400 jobs with another £28.8mil going back to the govt in tax.
The 2400 then spend 40% of their income, thereby supporting another 575 or so jobs. The govt gets a little more tax, and some other jobs are supported. This goes on for a while.

Then after the thieving foreign bds sell a few more vans, they pay back the £30mil plus interest.

So assuming it all goes right, the govt are on to a winner.

They obviously didn't agree with the numbers I just made up off the top of my head.

But that is the principal - save jobs. It is a Labour government after all.

[Nadyenka]

beanbag said:

funding the Russian bh wife.


For this reason I have a lot of contempt for them in general. Perhaps this is a sweeping statement to make but I accept there is the exception to this rule and there are a lot of good Russian business persons out there. I've just yet to meet them.

It is stupid statement

[Vanya]

Nadyenka said:

beanbag said:

funding the Russian bh wife.


For this reason I have a lot of contempt for them in general. Perhaps this is a sweeping statement to make but I accept there is the exception to this rule and there are a lot of good Russian business persons out there. I've just yet to meet them.

It is stupid statement

I completely agree Nadyenka, quite offensive... no wait... very offensive.

[ATG]

The funding request was for bridging finance for a management buy-out. Now whether or not the company has any future under any management, the idea that that can be construed as "subsidising" the Russian parent company is pretty stupid. If the parent is effectively letting LDV go bust, no doubt they'll try and sell it if they can or load it up with debt and sink it. Either way, the management will be paying nothing more than the fair price for it unless they are mugs ... i.e. it can't be construed as an unfair transfer of cash back to mother Russia. In any case, the UK govt has told them they're not putting any money on the table, so it's all academic. Clearly no one is prepared to back the mgmt team, amongst other reasons, because they don't seem to be bringing much cash to the table themselves.

Edited by ATG on Tuesday 24th February 07:20

[cardigankid]

The whole story sounds to me like a con. Govt hands over £30m to Management Buyout Team. They pay the money to the Russians for the company. The company goes bust anyway. Effectively, UK pays Russians £30m.

Because Mandy was being entertained like a Roman Emperor on Boris Kalashnikov's yacht last summer, he is supposed to ok it without a fuss. That's how it would have worked in Mother Russia. Unfortunately the whole thing is now so high profile that the political reality is that Mandelson can't go within 100 miles of it.

That's my reading of it anyway. If this was bona fide, the buyout team would have some concept of where their money was coming from.

Edited by cardigankid on Tuesday 24th February 07:32