Michael Gove on R4 'Today'
Discussion
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He performed well in my view, and gave Humhrys a bashing. He accused the Beeb of bias - shock horror.
He performed well in my view, and gave Humhrys a bashing. He accused the Beeb of bias - shock horror.
I saw his interview on Newsnight, and his appearance on QT, and thought he gave a very good account of himself. Didn't shy away from negative points, welcomed all forms of questioning, and actually seemed to attempt to answer the question he was asked, rather than the usual method of deflection.
Seems genuine enough, though, that is from very limited viewing of him.
Seems genuine enough, though, that is from very limited viewing of him.
Edited by Spiritual_Beggar on Monday 26th April 14:39
To confirm, was this the chap at about 7:30am saying he wants to give money to parents tho start their own schools? Funded by the huge wastage spent in 'back office' jobs in the education department (circe 36 Billion IIRC)?
I thought he was terrible and got a proper beasting!
(cant check the link - its barred from work)
I thought he was terrible and got a proper beasting!
(cant check the link - its barred from work)
Edited by dazzztay on Monday 26th April 14:41
Then thats who i mean.....i drive to work from 06:50 for an hour - listen to R4 all the way.
He was poor i thought and i agreed that it would be better to invest the wasted money into bringing up the level of normal schools rather than dilute it between the middle class minority folk who are in a position to open their own schools for the few!
He was poor i thought and i agreed that it would be better to invest the wasted money into bringing up the level of normal schools rather than dilute it between the middle class minority folk who are in a position to open their own schools for the few!
Edited by dazzztay on Monday 26th April 14:46
Eric Mc said:
Why do you think he was terrible?
Was it the content of what he was saying or was it your perception of the person you think he might be?
If the latter, what would have brought about that perception?
i just added to my post above - i had no idea what he looked like until i googled him just now. im not really fussed who he is or where he comes from - just dissagree with how he wants to spend the money.Was it the content of what he was saying or was it your perception of the person you think he might be?
If the latter, what would have brought about that perception?
He clarified it later by saying that about £4000 per child (per annum I assume) is allowed to the schools for their education and the same amount would follow the child to the Free School. Obviously poor schools are aggrieved because any pupils that leave them to go to the Free School would cost them that money. I have to agree that improving existing schools makes more sense on the face of it, but poorly performing schools have steadfastly resisted all attempts to improve them in the past. It's almost as if they have a curse on them and cannot shake it off. I fail to see why this is any way elitist or 'middle class', but what it would involve would be parents who take an interest in their children's education having a hand in it. Parents who don't give a damn aren't exclusive to the poor - they're universal.
dazzztay said:
i just added to my post above - i had no idea what he looked like until i googled him just now. im not really fussed who he is or where he comes from - just dissagree with how he wants to spend the money.
The money would be used to prop up current schools....if that is what the local community wanted. If they wanted to set up a new school however, then the ability would be there for them to do so.I think it's a good idea that gives a 'Choice' to people, rather than forcing them into one thing or another. It lets the local community decide what is best for the situation they/ their local schools are in.
motco said:
He clarified it later by saying that about £4000 per child (per annum I assume) is allowed to the schools for their education and the same amount would follow the child to the Free School. Obviously poor schools are aggrieved because any pupils that leave them to go to the Free School would cost them that money. I have to agree that improving existing schools makes more sense on the face of it, but poorly performing schools have steadfastly resisted all attempts to improve them in the past. It's almost as if they have a curse on them and cannot shake it off. I fail to see why this is any way elitist or 'middle class', but what it would involve would be parents who take an interest in their children's education having a hand in it. Parents who don't give a damn aren't exclusive to the poor - they're universal.
fair comment about "Parents who don't give a damn aren't exclusive to the poor" - i agree to that. But this means that families where both parents work can only suffer. They cant start their own schools; and the schools that are available to them risk losing part of their funding due to people in circumstances that allow it removing their children to semi-private schools. Also how can these mini-schools be regulated to the same extent and how can it be proven the kids will get a better education?I believe the answer is in 'pairing up' good schools with bad schools - this has worked very well in my area! In forcing change to the schools that need it, removing the 'dead-wood' old fashioned staff who resist change and upping the game of the poorer performing schools. We cant say "we wont put in the effort with bad schools - feel free to educate your kids elsewhere" - we need to improve the bad schools by good ideas, properly funded and backed up by the right people.
Spiritual_Beggar said:
dazzztay said:
i just added to my post above - i had no idea what he looked like until i googled him just now. im not really fussed who he is or where he comes from - just dissagree with how he wants to spend the money.
The money would be used to prop up current schools....if that is what the local community wanted. If they wanted to set up a new school however, then the ability would be there for them to do so.I think it's a good idea that gives a 'Choice' to people, rather than forcing them into one thing or another. It lets the local community decide what is best for the situation they/ their local schools are in.
Its easy to look in from the outside and complain - what if this makes one knee jerk decission after another, opening and closing schools regularly.....what about the cost implications of that?
If there is a school in place surely its better to improve it than it is to chop and change and let people on the outside have decission making ability!
dazzztay said:
How often is the local community in a possition that 'knows best'?
More often than a central government, that's for sure, since the local community is more in tune with the needs of the people living there.Central Government measures everything by targets and statistics. Which does not actually tell you the overall picture within the community.
I put my faith in local communties over big government.
Obviously, you couldn't just hand out cash to every tom, dick, n harry who wanted to 'set-up' a new school. There would need to be checks etc, to make sure the school would work, and would provide a sufficent standard of education. But, you can't get bank loans without multiple credit checks, etc.....and this should be no different.
That is the biggest problem I foresee. I think the idea is a good one....but whether the application would be good enough, well, I'm not so sure. But that is more down to my lack of faith in the ploticians getting the legislation/ policy right, and less to do with my faith in the 'community knowing best'.
Edited by Spiritual_Beggar on Monday 26th April 15:19
Spiritual_Beggar said:
dazzztay said:
How often is the local community in a possition that 'knows best'?
More often than a central government, that's for sure, since the local community is more in tune with the needs of the people living there.Central Government measures everything by targets and statistics. Which does not actually tell you the overall picture within the community.
I put my faith in local communties over big government.
Obviously, you couldn't just hand out cash to every tom, dick, n harry who wanted to 'set-up' a new school. There would need to be checks etc, to make sure the school would work, and would provide a sufficent standard of education. But, you can't get bank loans without multiple credit checks, etc.....and this should be no different.
That is the biggest problem I foresee. I think the idea is a good one....but whether the application would be good enough, well, I'm not so sure. But that is more down to my lack of faith in the ploticians getting the legislation/ policy right, and less to do with my faith in the 'community knowing best'.
Edited by Spiritual_Beggar on Monday 26th April 15:19
"Gove v Humphrys: reason enough to vote Conservative"
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/...
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/...
dazzztay said:
Then surely a better course of action would be working groups where local people can set targets for the school along with the existing government targets - so the school can be given a portion of direction by people from the area and governments can take care of the bigger picture?
You want another set of 'targets' on top of the stream of bureaucratic targets that are swamping the schools? Good luck with that. Sounds like a classical deathmarch strategy.dazzztay said:
Then surely a better course of action would be working groups where local people can set targets for the school along with the existing government targets - so the school can be given a portion of direction by people from the area and governments can take care of the bigger picture?
If that's the best method for that particular school, then yes.What the conservatives are offering is 'another option', if the parents feel that just giving the existing school more money is not the solution.
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