Kettling

[Derek Smith]

An interesting move here:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2010/dec/14/st...

So what do you think? Will kettling be banned by the courts?

It is only a tactic and one that I feel might be able to be negated with a bit of planning.

I can see some arguments for its continued use, and for the action. But I can see some simple legislation being used to enable kettling to go on.

[NoelWatson]

Derek Smith said:

An interesting move here:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2010/dec/14/st...

So what do you think? Will kettling be banned by the courts?

It is only a tactic and one that I feel might be able to be negated with a bit of planning.

I can see some arguments for its continued use, and for the action. But I can see some simple legislation being used to enable kettling to go on.

I think kettling has outlived its usefulness and we should now move onto water cannons

[ShadownINja]

It's getting tedious. I wish they (the students) would just sod off and learn to read, then learn how to analyse before opening their stinking, idiotic mouths. fkwits.

That said, I was looking forward to my free degree in blue cardboard circles paid for by you lot.

Edited by ShadownINja on Tuesday 14th December 20:17

[stripy7]

NoelWatson said:

Derek Smith said:

An interesting move here:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2010/dec/14/st...

So what do you think? Will kettling be banned by the courts?

It is only a tactic and one that I feel might be able to be negated with a bit of planning.

I can see some arguments for its continued use, and for the action. But I can see some simple legislation being used to enable kettling to go on.

I think kettling has outlived its usefulness and we should now move onto water cannons

With Boiling Water?

[Mr_annie_vxr]

It's been tested in court and found EHCR compliant which is what the

home secretary keeps referring too.

It only gets put on once violence starts. If I remember it went on about 1545 last demo well after they'd left the agreed route. Refused to move on and started attacking police lines.

There will be people who are non violent caught up. However if they did more to distance themselves from the violent protestors rather than standing around them then they may get out.

It was clear from sky shots people could leave. It also didn't look cramped in there.

[xr287]

What's wrong with tear gas? I'd like to see them try that next.

[anonymous-user]

I demand they use laughing gas.

[RYH64E]

In the extremely unlikely event that I ever felt compelled to take part in a protest or demonstration, I would very much object to being subject to 'kettling'. To my mind it is tantamount to false imprisonment.

However, I have absolutely no objection to using forceful tactics against those actually misbehaving at demonstrations, and would very much like to see examples made of the tt who threw the fire extinguisher from the roof of Millbank Tower, and the likes of Charlie Gilmour.

[Derek Smith]

Mr_annie_vxr said:

It's been tested in court and found EHCR compliant

The points it is being challenged on are quite specific and, given the chap's CV, one would assume he's read the case law.

From the very brief report he is suggesting that its use was inappropriate on this specific instance because it was used as a planed tactic and not in response to, or anticiapation of, misbehaviour.

Which is what the poster below seems to feel.

RYH64E said:

In the extremely unlikely event that I ever felt compelled to take part in a protest or demonstration, I would very much object to being subject to 'kettling'. To my mind it is tantamount to false imprisonment.

However, I have absolutely no objection to using forceful tactics against those actually misbehaving at demonstrations, and would very much like to see examples made of the tt who threw the fire extinguisher from the roof of Millbank Tower, and the likes of Charlie Gilmour.

[Derek Smith]

NoelWatson said:

I think kettling has outlived its usefulness and we should now move onto water cannons

The tactics will have to change. No one kind has much of a shelf life.

The normal lifecycle for a new tactic is for it to be used once when things go poorly, then used again after some thought when it confounds the crowd. The next time they are used the crowd has some tactic to try and defeat it but the police have overwhelming officers trained in its use.

The next demo, because the previous one was so successful, fewer officers are depolyed and disaster is narrowly averted. Injuries to officers is not averted though. It is suggested to senior officers that numbers should increase but it is pointed out that nothing has gone wrong since. The next demo the trained officers, all four of them, are overwhelmed.

Then thousands are trained, with new equipment, different colours and a DVD explaining how to do it. At the same time some judge has ruled against it and it is never seen again.

[Ikemi]

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/coppers/4od

The latest episode of Coppers features a violent demonstration between the EDL and UAF - It's interesting to see the protests/kettling tactics from the point of view of the Police. It was also quite interesting to hear a spokesperson from the EDL and UAF state how their members showed no signs of violence throughout the demonstration!

[deeen]

Why not just arrest anyone who is breaking the law?

[nelly1]

deeen said:

Why not just arrest anyone who is breaking the law?

Away with you and your common sense!

Far better to video those miscreants while in the act of lawbreaking, then maybe arrest them at a later date, hold them for a bit, release them without charge and still get slagged off for 'Police Brutality'.

PC bks be damned!

Target the ones throwing scaffold poles at horses and bottles full of piss at Coppers, drag them out by their hair and prosecute them immediately to the full extent of the Law(*).

• - the real Law, not the namby-pamby st that passes for it nowadays

Oh well - back from the World of Dreams...

[JungleJim]

Ikemi said:

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/coppers/4od

The latest episode of Coppers features a violent demonstration between the EDL and UAF - It's interesting to see the protests/kettling tactics from the point of view of the Police. It was also quite interesting to hear a spokesperson from the EDL and UAF state how their members showed no signs of violence throughout the demonstration!

The EDL were a joke.

[HOGEPH]

xr287 said:

What's wrong with tear gas? I'd like to see them try that next.

Bottom gas would be more of a deterrent.

[Dkta2989]

Derek Smith said:

An interesting move here:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2010/dec/14/st...

So what do you think? Will kettling be banned by the courts?

It is only a tactic and one that I feel might be able to be negated with a bit of planning.

I can see some arguments for its continued use, and for the action. But I can see some simple legislation being used to enable kettling to go on.

Good question, I have no problems with its further use. What would you suggest as an alternative?

[AJS-]

Dkta2989 said:

What would you suggest as an alternative?

[turbobloke]

Derek Smith said:

NoelWatson said:

I think kettling has outlived its usefulness and we should now move onto water cannons

The tactics will have to change. No one kind has much of a shelf life.

The normal lifecycle for a new tactic is for it to be used once when things go poorly, then used again after some thought when it confounds the crowd. The next time they are used the crowd has some tactic to try and defeat it but the police have overwhelming officers trained in its use.

The next demo, because the previous one was so successful, fewer officers are depolyed and disaster is narrowly averted. Injuries to officers is not averted though. It is suggested to senior officers that numbers should increase but it is pointed out that nothing has gone wrong since. The next demo the trained officers, all four of them, are overwhelmed.

Then thousands are trained, with new equipment, different colours and a DVD explaining how to do it. At the same time some judge has ruled against it and it is never seen again.

And the winner is......a dark ironic sense of humour

[Jonny671]

That cretin who they've interviewed in that article was on the news yesterday..

"Bla bla bla about kettling, human rights (Her dad is a human rights lawyer) bla bla bla"

"So how do you propose the Police control violent protests?"

"Thats not for me to make suggestions."

Ok, so you don't have a fking clue on how to control them but seem to reckon you shouldn't be kettled. fk off.

[Jasandjules]

Jonny671 said:

Ok, so you don't have a fking clue on how to control them but seem to reckon you shouldn't be kettled. fk off.

In fairness to her she is quite right. I don't think she is likely to be an expert on crowd control and so realistically it is a bit stupid to ask for or rely on her view isn't it? I mean, if she's said "throw loads of custard at them" do you then think the police should have been popping to the supermarkets!!????


It is also fair to say that those who are not acting violently ought not to suffer any harm from the police.

Those who have been violent etc however should be removed by force and jailed and prosecuted.