Do you think Blair will ever understand how hated he is?
Discussion
I don't think Blair was particularly clever, at all. But at the same time I'm not sure he made many mistakes? He certainly doesn't seem to have expressed regret for many since leaving the post. I think he was just quite deliberate in making decisions for personal gain over what would be considered right.
Derek - I agree with everything you say but there is one key aspect - legacy.
While Thatcher might be despised by certain groups, her legacy, the general state she left the country in, cannot be disputed - from the sick man of Europe to a force on the world stage.
Unfortunately for Blair, the same can be said and there is very little that will make good reading.
While Brown, for instance, will simply be forgotten or perhaps recalled as being a bit of a clod.
While Thatcher might be despised by certain groups, her legacy, the general state she left the country in, cannot be disputed - from the sick man of Europe to a force on the world stage.
Unfortunately for Blair, the same can be said and there is very little that will make good reading.
While Brown, for instance, will simply be forgotten or perhaps recalled as being a bit of a clod.
0000 said:
I don't think Blair was particularly clever, at all. But at the same time I'm not sure he made many mistakes? He certainly doesn't seem to have expressed regret for many since leaving the post. I think he was just quite deliberate in making decisions for personal gain over what would be considered right.
I see what you saying. All I was trying to point out was that to make the amount of money he has you can be a bit on the bright side. He's sharp I think I would agree that his cleverness could not translate into running the country well.Asterix said:
Derek - I agree with everything you say but there is one key aspect - legacy.
While Thatcher might be despised by certain groups, her legacy, the general state she left the country in, cannot be disputed - from the sick man of Europe to a force on the world stage.
Unfortunately for Blair, the same can be said and there is very little that will make good reading.
While Brown, for instance, will simply be forgotten or perhaps recalled as being a bit of a clod.
I accept your point. Thatcher's legacy is the big difference. Blair has got one such.While Thatcher might be despised by certain groups, her legacy, the general state she left the country in, cannot be disputed - from the sick man of Europe to a force on the world stage.
Unfortunately for Blair, the same can be said and there is very little that will make good reading.
While Brown, for instance, will simply be forgotten or perhaps recalled as being a bit of a clod.
That said there are many who feel underwhelmed by Thatcher's stint in power. When one considers the amount of money she had to play with, North Sea oil coming on stream nicely and the big public ownership sell offs, I don't think the case is made with regards funny for money. Although it has been 22 years I think we need a little bit longer to say whether that largess is wasted.
What is true I think is that once she went the rest of the party behaved like it was a party. Instead of building on what was generally, I think, the success there were like schoolkids at the end of term. I have a lot of respect for Major, ERM notwithstanding, that he had to deal with an impossible situation.
She might well have left something to build on that the opportunity was not grabbed by the rest of the party.
Derek Smith said:
Asterix said:
Derek - I agree with everything you say but there is one key aspect - legacy.
While Thatcher might be despised by certain groups, her legacy, the general state she left the country in, cannot be disputed - from the sick man of Europe to a force on the world stage.
Unfortunately for Blair, the same can be said and there is very little that will make good reading.
While Brown, for instance, will simply be forgotten or perhaps recalled as being a bit of a clod.
I accept your point. Thatcher's legacy is the big difference. Blair has got one such.While Thatcher might be despised by certain groups, her legacy, the general state she left the country in, cannot be disputed - from the sick man of Europe to a force on the world stage.
Unfortunately for Blair, the same can be said and there is very little that will make good reading.
While Brown, for instance, will simply be forgotten or perhaps recalled as being a bit of a clod.
That said there are many who feel underwhelmed by Thatcher's stint in power. When one considers the amount of money she had to play with, North Sea oil coming on stream nicely and the big public ownership sell offs, I don't think the case is made with regards funny for money. Although it has been 22 years I think we need a little bit longer to say whether that largess is wasted.
What is true I think is that once she went the rest of the party behaved like it was a party. Instead of building on what was generally, I think, the success there were like schoolkids at the end of term. I have a lot of respect for Major, ERM notwithstanding, that he had to deal with an impossible situation.
She might well have left something to build on that the opportunity was not grabbed by the rest of the party.
Makes you wonder why the US were such good partners back then - perhaps it was because we caught up with our arrears and then started to manage the monthly direct debit...
I think Blair's going to go down in history as the Prime Minister who bent over for that halfwit Bush Jnr and in doing so helped caused the death of hundreds of thousands of people. That's what a million people tried to prevent by marching in London, that's why people lost faith in the Blair government IMO, and that's what he has to live with... everybody knows he lied and he knows everybody knows it. Hated? Yes, I think so, from all sides of the UK political spectrum.
-Pete- said:
I think Blair's going to go down in history as the Prime Minister who bent over for that halfwit Bush Jnr and in doing so helped caused the death of hundreds of thousands of people. That's what a million people tried to prevent by marching in London, that's why people lost faith in the Blair government IMO, and that's what he has to live with... everybody knows he lied and he knows everybody knows it. Hated? Yes, I think so, from all sides of the UK political spectrum.
That's quite a good description of how I feel.At the time the people I was associating with at work and at home all thought that an invasion of Iraq was a bad idea and wouldn't be the cake-walk that the Americans were selling. None of us believed the WMD stuff either. We were just a bunch of ordinary joes without the resources of MI6 and the rest at our fingertips and we could see that the whole casus belli was manufactured rubbish. It makes me really angry just thinking about it.
-Pete- said:
Brown's an idiot, and it was he that was stitched up by Blair.
Exactly. Blair hung on for much longer than Brown thought he would but Brown never made Blair formally agree a date at which he would step down. Brown got the fag-end when everyone was already fed up with Labour.Asterix said:
wollowizard said:
martin84 said:
The mans a genius, gotta give him that.
No he is a war criminal that got himself stitched up by Gordon Brown.1. He as chancellor raided our pensions and became known as a prudent chancellor.
2. He as chancellor sold off all our gold on the cheap and became known as a prudent chancellor.
3. He as Chacellor doubled taxation 1987 - 1997 it was £700 billion 1997 to 2007 it was £1.4 TRILLION yet became known as a prudent chancellor.
He inbetween 2002 and 2008 (before any banking problems and despite the above ^^^ was borrowing an extra £20 - £30 BILLION a year. £160 BILLION over those 6 years. and yet he became known as a prudent chancellor that the financial world came to for advice.
The more his party wasted the more he would have to use his brain to find more. His downfall was knowing he would one day be PM as I think this made him try to keep everybody happy (which he did to a point) but unfortunately it was unsustainable.
Tony Blairs only clever moment was getting Gordon to agree to a back seat.
f
kin hell it sounds like I like the tt lol
wollowizard said:
martin84 said:
wollowizard said:
No he is a war criminal that got himself stitched up by Gordon Brown.
He's a war criminal who got away with it. That makes him very clever.wollowizard said:
Asterix said:
wollowizard said:
martin84 said:
The mans a genius, gotta give him that.
No he is a war criminal that got himself stitched up by Gordon Brown.1. He as chancellor raided our pensions and became known as a prudent chancellor.
2. He as chancellor sold off all our gold on the cheap and became known as a prudent chancellor.
3. He as Chacellor doubled taxation 1987 - 1997 it was £700 billion 1997 to 2007 it was £1.4 TRILLION yet became known as a prudent chancellor.
He inbetween 2002 and 2008 (before any banking problems and despite the above ^^^ was borrowing an extra £20 - £30 BILLION a year. £160 BILLION over those 6 years. and yet he became known as a prudent chancellor that the financial world came to for advice.
The more his party wasted the more he would have to use his brain to find more. His downfall was knowing he would one day be PM as I think this made him try to keep everybody happy (which he did to a point) but unfortunately it was unsustainable.
Tony Blairs only clever moment was getting Gordon to agree to a back seat.
f
kin hell it sounds like I like the tt lolThis, to my mind, highlights quite how thick and unaware the population were encouraged to be under Labour. People are talking about how 'clever' Blair is/was. I think the 'cleverest' thing he did (for himself, mind, not the country which has since adopted the lazy, detatched, nothing-to-do-with-me-guv attitude en masse) was convince so many people that there was absolutely nothing to worry about, and that we should just continue to conform, consume and obey.
That said, I don't think it was all Blair. I think he was Darth Vader to Peter Mandelson's Emperor Palpatine. Mandelson has been pulling party strings for decades, and yet has managed to ensure that he's never in a blatant position of responsibility. He knows he's unelectable, so he managed to get into the House of Lords. That really does say it all about Mandelson. Sacked twice for good reasons, came back twice inexplicably, then managed to secure ultimate, unmoveable power even though he's the last person the British public would want anywhere near a ballot box. The man is horrid.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff