Millibrain as PM. The end of the UK?
Poll: Millibrain as PM. The end of the UK?
Total Members Polled: 349
Discussion
ralphrj said:
McWigglebum4th said:
Okay how bad will it get after 5 years of labour
It will be much the same as another 5 years of Conservative or Tory/Libdem coalition.Our problems are so great that there are no silver bullets that will solve them.
Labour may talk about spending more and taxing less but that is purely because they are in opposition and it is politically expedient to do so.
The reality is that they will have to plod the same course of slowly increasing taxes and trying to keep spending increases to below inflation.
Since the beginning of the crisis the vast majority of people have not lost their jobs or seen drastic changes to their personal circumstances. What they have done is consolidate their financial position by paying down debt (credit cards, bank loans, mortgages etc) rather than taking on more.
Eventually peoples personal financial circumstances will have improved to such an extent that they are prepared to spend (and possibly borrow) more. Then we will see growth.
The colour of the tie the Prime Minister wears will have no impact on this.
He will just fiddle with stuff around the edges while really annoying the tory fanboys who will call me a lefty
because i don't run around screaming the sky is fallingMcWigglebum4th said:
Which is my feelings that market pressures etc won't allow Millibrain to treble spending overnight.
Agreed. Brown ignored warnings from the EU, BoE, IMF etc but I don't think any future government will be given the same leeway and if they attempted to increase spending (and therefore the deficit) they would be jumped on.Edit to add:
One mistake I can see Miliband making is the over emphasis on a single or too narrow a measure of of economic performance.
Brown was obsessed with inflation and interest rates and assumed that if they were low then all was fine. He would not accept that these could appear OK but the economy could be weak (being inflated solely by cheap debt).
Miliband goes on and on about GDP growth but it is not the sole measure that proves an economy is doing well. In the 2000-07 period Greece enjoyed the biggest GDP growth of any EU nation as they borrowed heavily to invest in infrastructure projects. When the crisis hit it was the size of their debt that finished them not the size of their economy.
Edited by ralphrj on Friday 15th March 07:23
eharding said:
powerstroke said:
I think we can write off 2015-2020 we are having minigland and balls!! CMD is determined to stay as tory leader so they will get even fewer votes than last time! It will be about surviving a labour term and watching the torys self destruct and the rise of UKIP ...
Here we go again.Interesting, though, the sort of sociopath that would cheerfully admit to wanting a society to suffer another 5 years of retrograde pain, decay and profligacy, in the belief that the suffering would somehow make the electorate flock to their own polarised political cause.
t differnt day, god help us... Edited by powerstroke on Friday 15th March 07:57
eharding said:
McWigglebum4th said:
eharding said:
McWigglebum4th said:
Well there are differing degrees of worse
If you think that having to deal with moaning tory fanboys is the same level of bad as beng made homeless then thats your problem
Umm...now you've lost me. Who is 'beng made homeless'?If you think that having to deal with moaning tory fanboys is the same level of bad as beng made homeless then thats your problem
As you state things will be far worse then just now
To me being homeless is far worse then just now
or do you define having a hole in your sock a life changing horror
McWigglebum4th said:
Twincam16 said:
There are three things looming large over Labour that make me struggle to want to vote for them in the next election:
:Waffle snip:
.
But this isn't about voting labour:Waffle snip:
.
Everyone here will vote tory as if you don't tory labour will get in
Just once labour get in how long defore the entire country is a smoking ruin or will it be barely a noticable change
OllieC said:
If you don't vote the wrong type of Lizards will get in.
But the lizards get in anyway...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qk12ALX9fz8
McWigglebum4th said:
Which is my feelings that market pressures etc won't allow Millibrain to treble spending overnight.
He will just fiddle with stuff around the edges while really annoying the tory fanboys who will call me a lefty because i don't run around screaming the sky is falling
Stop saying 'fanboys' for heaven's sake, it makes you sound like a child. I voted Labour all of my life except for the last GE where I voted Tory - I am not a 'fanboy' of any political party. Anybody who votes for Party X over Party Y because of the colour of their ties should immediately lose the right to vote. I vote on past performance and, naively, promises of action. This Labour party has shown themselves to be totally incapable of ANY fiscal responsibility, whereas at least the Tories seem to want to pull us out of the hole we're in. He will just fiddle with stuff around the edges while really annoying the tory fanboys who will call me a lefty
because i don't run around screaming the sky is fallingIf Labour come up with policies that are clearly better than the Tories then I'd vote for them again, if they don't then I won't.
In my first post in this thread I said I wouldn't vote again, but now I'm inclined to make the effort, and as it stands I will vote for the party that is less s
t than the rest - the Tories. So this thread has been useful after all.Dixie68 said:
Stop saying 'fanboys' for heaven's sake, it makes you sound like a child. I voted Labour all of my life except for the last GE where I voted Tory - I am not a 'fanboy' of any political party. Anybody who votes for Party X over Party Y because of the colour of their ties should immediately lose the right to vote. I vote on past performance and, naively, promises of action. This Labour party has shown themselves to be totally incapable of ANY fiscal responsibility, whereas at least the Tories seem to want to pull us out of the hole we're in.
If Labour come up with policies that are clearly better than the Tories then I'd vote for them again, if they don't then I won't.
In my first post in this thread I said I wouldn't vote again, but now I'm inclined to make the effort, and as it stands I will vote for the party that is less st than the rest - the Tories. So this thread has been useful after all.
This exactly. Any other way of deciding who to vote for is just nonsense.If Labour come up with policies that are clearly better than the Tories then I'd vote for them again, if they don't then I won't.
In my first post in this thread I said I wouldn't vote again, but now I'm inclined to make the effort, and as it stands I will vote for the party that is less s
t than the rest - the Tories. So this thread has been useful after all.The previous Labour goverment showed that they were at best, incompetant at managing the economy and at worst, willfully manipulated the economy to ensure as many people as possible where dependant upon the state (and them being in government) to the detriment of the country.
For that reason, they won't be getting my vote. I don't have a lot of faith in the rest of the parties but none of them have yet to prove their incompetance.
Breadvan72 said:
RIPA does not override the HRA in any significant respect. The article 8 right is a qualified right. RIPA to a large extent codifies prior practice.
I was and remain strongly critical of the illiberal and authoritarian aspects of the last Government's policies, but to suggest that the current Government has a better record on human rights and civil liberties than the previous one is, I suggest, unrealistic.
Blair, Brown, Cameron, and his likely successor are all authoritarian Statists. We have no libertarians, whether left-libertarian or right-libertarian in positions of influence.
I don't think they are. I don't think Cameron, Clegg, and Osbourne really have much idea about anything ideologically speaking. They are all bored rich kids with too much time on thier hands. They have no 'steel' about them, they can't, because it can only be acquired through real life experience. The creeping authoritarianism has come from the civil service, driven by the eu, which is a jobs club for beaurocracy, which is a monster, begats more and more dictats. There was a quote a while back from an ex labour advisor I can't find, who said that some things in the conservative manifesto were things that the civil service had been pushing for for years. Those nuggets are like gold, because it shows what's really going on, similar to another story which was mysteriously pulled from being published, which stated most decisions were made by the civil service, and ministers only found out policy by watching the morning news the next day!. Given that mandarins are paye, pensioned, and very feather bedded, don't expect any changes soon; to use a PH acronym, !turkeys don't vote for Xmas'. I was and remain strongly critical of the illiberal and authoritarian aspects of the last Government's policies, but to suggest that the current Government has a better record on human rights and civil liberties than the previous one is, I suggest, unrealistic.
Blair, Brown, Cameron, and his likely successor are all authoritarian Statists. We have no libertarians, whether left-libertarian or right-libertarian in positions of influence.
I have worked quite closely with several Whitehall departments over the last dozen years or so, and your view of how Government works does not accord with what I have observed. Also, the influence of the EU is exaggerated. Most of the policy and legislative initiatives are still driven by London, not Brussels, and Ministers have a lot more influence on what happens than your version of the system supposes.
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