Cut-backs begin to bite

[MOTORVATOR]

crankedup said:

MOTORVATOR said:

Cranky I think you may believe you pay for these services when you don't. Have you compared your water rates with a similar property on mains drainage?

TBH no I haven't and I had not considered that either. Its a fair point and it is very likely I pay a lot less than people who pay waste water sewage rates. So perhaps I need to row back

You do of course have to be careful what you wish for as well.

This daft conservative government has recently decided to transfer responsibility for private sewers outside of the boundary of private property opening up the case for the water authorities to charge for discharge where they previously haven't.

So you may just find this thread comes back and bites you on the arse in the not too distant future.

http://www.ofwat.gov.uk/consumerissues/rightsrespo...

[McWigglebum4th]

crankedup said:

I know it all sounds simple, believe me it wasn't. I spent two days trying to clear my neighbours blocked drain pipe. His drain runs underneath his garage and part of his house.

Now maybe i'm not quite joining the dots here but

You blame this firmly on thatcher and her government stopping payments to farmers for clearing ditches

If this is an agricultural drain on agricultural land then why is it going under a garage

[crankedup]

McWigglebum4th said:

crankedup said:

McWigglebum4th said:

Quick blame maggie

Why?

Over inflated sense of entitlement coupled with a total lack of personnel responsibility lightly blended with a leftwing mindset?

Very overblown out of control self hyped post I would suggest!
Sorry you see it that way TBH, however, get used to it or emigrate, more of 'my type' will be in Government very soon. We are seeing the last remnants of the evil Tories, I for one can't wait to help fill in their grave. So Commie left wingers like me will be poncing off the likes of you then? we will raise taxes and increase budgets within the P.S. Perhaps then the P.S. can get back to providing what they were formed to provide. All I wanted was a little bit of practical help, first time I have ever called upon the P.S. (other than once I was in the back of an ambulance)

[crankedup]

McWigglebum4th said:

crankedup said:

I know it all sounds simple, believe me it wasn't. I spent two days trying to clear my neighbours blocked drain pipe. His drain runs underneath his garage and part of his house.

Now maybe i'm not quite joining the dots here but

You blame this firmly on thatcher and her government stopping payments to farmers for clearing ditches

If this is an agricultural drain on agricultural land then why is it going under a garage

Correct, you are not joining the dots and I am getting a little bored with people who seem so narrow minded unable to see the bigger picture. I have fully explained the situation in prior posts but people like to jump up and down spouting their own moral POV completely ignoring the situation and facts. Interpreting my situation as some evil left wing sponging ponce because I found myself in a serious predicament and found that no practical assistance was available to me within the P.S. establishment is not only a disgusting thing to suggest its also completely factually incorrect and defamatory.
So far as your theory that I blame Thatcher and farmers for the situation, I have at no time said that. What I did say was it has contributed to the situation and I particularly mentioned road flooding.
For my want of some sort of meaningful debate about my situation, shared by millions of other home owners, quickly descends into the usual pantomime as is PH nowadays.

[crankedup]

NailedOn said:

Hey Crankedup. I am sorry you had a problem with serious flooding. I lived in the countryside a while ago and when the water takes over, it is a huge force. Pretty frightening as a matter of fact.
I've seen a fair few of your posts and you sound like a decent bloke with an ar&e for a neighbour.
I don't go with your politics on this one but you have my sympathy for a right old mare of a situation. I hope it turns out fine.

Thanks for a bit of support. I didn't expect or even want sympathy TBH. I have been a member in here long enough to know not to expect that! However, you are decent enough to rightly recognise the difference between my politics and a personal stressful situation.
Maybe I was wrong to try and seek assistance, it wasn't done as a view to any expectation on my part, purely panic driven and not knowing which way to turn next, something clearly I am guilty of so far as some PH'ers are concerned.

[crankedup]

rhinochopig said:

singlecoil said:

singlecoil said:

It's in the nature of cutbacks that there will be less services provided by those agencies that are cut back than previously. Every now and then we will find ourselves in situations where we are directly affected by this.

So, OP, what exactly is your point? That there should be no cutbacks? Public borrowing should increase?

I daresay you don't want to respond to this, just quoting it to make sure you had seen it, as I am interested to know what your point is, and what you think the solution is.

Most rural stations are retained anyway - i.e. voluntary with minimal remuneration. They just put it down to training; it's what we typically do in rural communities, we help each other out. And as for a waste of taxes - think of it as compensation for having almost zero infrastructure.

Our own fire service is retained volunteers, I mentioned earlier that 'situations' are used sometimes for practice drills and equipment tests. Of course its not want some want to read and so quickly begin the usual ranting off about all sorts of irrelevance. On this occasion, assistance was not to be, but notice at no time have I ever said a single bad word about the Fire service or any other service, nor would I.
This particular rebuke of my post/situation I take as receiving from a bunch of townies who are out of their depth when it comes to countryside issues.

[crankedup]

A bit of context now : within the recent past a horse fell over a cliff, its true. The poor old horse was in trouble being stranded half way up and half way down that cliff. Call the Fire Service, they respond and spent a full day rescuing that dear poor old horse.

Now for all you posters in here : should the Fire Service have spent our taxes and their invaluable time rescuing that old horse?

Your reply isn't particularly important of course, its purely a real life scenario and something the Fire Service respond to over the entire Country (except Norfolk because they don't have cliffs) Presumably you lot take the view they shouldn't do this work?

Second point, if your unlucky enough to see your car ablaze whilst it is on your private driveway, would you think it reasonable to call the Fire Service for them to douse the fire? If so why, if its private property on private land why should they respond? You see their are many instances whereby you may consider their help to be available to you. I did in my own situation, is that so wrong.
Come on don't give up now, tell me where I am going wrong with these scenarios.

Edited by crankedup on Saturday 16th March 15:00

Edited by crankedup on Saturday 16th March 15:01

[McWigglebum4th]

crankedup said:

A bit of context now : within the recent past a horse fell over a cliff, its true. The poor old horse was in trouble being stranded half way up and half way down that cliff. Call the Fire Service, they respond and spent a full day rescuing that dear poor old horse.

Now for all you posters in here : should the Fire Service have spent our taxes and their invaluable time rescuing that old horse?

Your reply isn't particularly important of course, its purely a real life scenario and something the Fire Service respond to over the entire Country (except Norfolk because they don't have cliffs) Presumably you lot take the view they shouldn't do this work?

Okay

Why should they pump out your garden instead of rescuing a horse

[crankedup]

McWigglebum4th said:

crankedup said:

A bit of context now : within the recent past a horse fell over a cliff, its true. The poor old horse was in trouble being stranded half way up and half way down that cliff. Call the Fire Service, they respond and spent a full day rescuing that dear poor old horse.

Now for all you posters in here : should the Fire Service have spent our taxes and their invaluable time rescuing that old horse?

Your reply isn't particularly important of course, its purely a real life scenario and something the Fire Service respond to over the entire Country (except Norfolk because they don't have cliffs) Presumably you lot take the view they shouldn't do this work?

Okay

Why should they pump out your garden instead of rescuing a horse

But you evade my question, be fair and demonstrate using your own mindset applied to my posts in answering this very simple question. Also refrain from belittling my situation by your misuse of word play.

[Deva Link]

MOTORVATOR said:

You do of course have to be careful what you wish for as well.

This daft conservative government has recently decided to transfer responsibility for private sewers outside of the boundary of private property opening up the case for the water authorities to charge for discharge where they previously haven't.

So you may just find this thread comes back and bites you on the arse in the not too distant future.

http://www.ofwat.gov.uk/consumerissues/rightsrespo...

Hmmm...I haven't seen your intreptation before, and it doesn't apply to private sewers for surface water.

The move has been widely welcomed as getting shared sewers repaired before meant all of the sharers chipping in, which is unlikely to be easy.

[McWigglebum4th]

crankedup said:

McWigglebum4th said:

crankedup said:

A bit of context now : within the recent past a horse fell over a cliff, its true. The poor old horse was in trouble being stranded half way up and half way down that cliff. Call the Fire Service, they respond and spent a full day rescuing that dear poor old horse.

Now for all you posters in here : should the Fire Service have spent our taxes and their invaluable time rescuing that old horse?

Your reply isn't particularly important of course, its purely a real life scenario and something the Fire Service respond to over the entire Country (except Norfolk because they don't have cliffs) Presumably you lot take the view they shouldn't do this work?

Okay

Why should they pump out your garden instead of rescuing a horse

But you evade my question, be fair and demonstrate using your own mindset applied to my posts in answering this very simple question. Also refrain from belittling my situation by your misuse of word play.

I'd set a focus grow to see if we can blame the horse falling off the cliff on the tories

[crankedup]

Deva Link said:

MOTORVATOR said:

You do of course have to be careful what you wish for as well.

This daft conservative government has recently decided to transfer responsibility for private sewers outside of the boundary of private property opening up the case for the water authorities to charge for discharge where they previously haven't.

So you may just find this thread comes back and bites you on the arse in the not too distant future.

http://www.ofwat.gov.uk/consumerissues/rightsrespo...

Hmmm...I haven't seen your intreptation before, and it doesn't apply to private sewers for surface water.

The move has been widely welcomed as getting shared sewers repaired before meant all of the sharers chipping in, which is unlikely to be easy.

This is all very interesting, how do those persons living in privately owned tower blocks respond when the drains are blocked to those flats if the apartments are all freehold?

[crankedup]

McWigglebum4th said:

crankedup said:

McWigglebum4th said:

crankedup said:

A bit of context now : within the recent past a horse fell over a cliff, its true. The poor old horse was in trouble being stranded half way up and half way down that cliff. Call the Fire Service, they respond and spent a full day rescuing that dear poor old horse.

Now for all you posters in here : should the Fire Service have spent our taxes and their invaluable time rescuing that old horse?

Your reply isn't particularly important of course, its purely a real life scenario and something the Fire Service respond to over the entire Country (except Norfolk because they don't have cliffs) Presumably you lot take the view they shouldn't do this work?

Okay

Why should they pump out your garden instead of rescuing a horse

But you evade my question, be fair and demonstrate using your own mindset applied to my posts in answering this very simple question. Also refrain from belittling my situation by your misuse of word play.

I'd set a focus grow to see if we can blame the horse falling off the cliff on the tories

Quite so, at least you reply with some humour. But I hope you see the more serious side of my questions relating to car fires and horses. I hope that some other posters may also reply to my simple questions.

[whoami]

crankedup said:

McWigglebum4th said:

crankedup said:

A bit of context now : within the recent past a horse fell over a cliff, its true. The poor old horse was in trouble being stranded half way up and half way down that cliff. Call the Fire Service, they respond and spent a full day rescuing that dear poor old horse.

Now for all you posters in here : should the Fire Service have spent our taxes and their invaluable time rescuing that old horse?

Your reply isn't particularly important of course, its purely a real life scenario and something the Fire Service respond to over the entire Country (except Norfolk because they don't have cliffs) Presumably you lot take the view they shouldn't do this work?

Okay

Why should they pump out your garden instead of rescuing a horse

But you evade my question, be fair and demonstrate using your own mindset applied to my posts in answering this very simple question. Also refrain from belittling my situation by your misuse of word play.

Pretty much like how you have avoided Toppstuff's post then?

[MOTORVATOR]

crankedup said:

Deva Link said:

MOTORVATOR said:

You do of course have to be careful what you wish for as well.

This daft conservative government has recently decided to transfer responsibility for private sewers outside of the boundary of private property opening up the case for the water authorities to charge for discharge where they previously haven't.

So you may just find this thread comes back and bites you on the arse in the not too distant future.

http://www.ofwat.gov.uk/consumerissues/rightsrespo...

Hmmm...I haven't seen your intreptation before, and it doesn't apply to private sewers for surface water.

The move has been widely welcomed as getting shared sewers repaired before meant all of the sharers chipping in, which is unlikely to be easy.

This is all very interesting, how do those persons living in privately owned tower blocks respond when the drains are blocked to those flats if the apartments are all freehold?

Flats have always been fairly straight forward as they necessarily have deeds managing shared areas. The main difference is to say a terrace where a communal drain runs through the rear and until recently the individual owner would genrally be responsible for the bit in their property. I say generally as properties built before 1937 invariably had alternative arrangements already with the authority.

In your particular instance though the key point is where those private sewers discharge. It's something the suppliers are looking at having been handed a huge liability as far as they are concerned. In your instance you clearly talk about disharging to a pipe as opposed to a riparian ditch. Let's just say the law isn't clear in all instances and a few people are about to get stung as the water authorities rewrite their charging documents.

As for your example of the fire service attending the horse, again you should be aware that the fire service have the right to charge for those services should they so wish. And again there are moves afoot to do just that.

[crankedup]

whoami said:

crankedup said:

McWigglebum4th said:

crankedup said:

A bit of context now : within the recent past a horse fell over a cliff, its true. The poor old horse was in trouble being stranded half way up and half way down that cliff. Call the Fire Service, they respond and spent a full day rescuing that dear poor old horse.

Now for all you posters in here : should the Fire Service have spent our taxes and their invaluable time rescuing that old horse?

Your reply isn't particularly important of course, its purely a real life scenario and something the Fire Service respond to over the entire Country (except Norfolk because they don't have cliffs) Presumably you lot take the view they shouldn't do this work?

Okay

Why should they pump out your garden instead of rescuing a horse

But you evade my question, be fair and demonstrate using your own mindset applied to my posts in answering this very simple question. Also refrain from belittling my situation by your misuse of word play.

Pretty much like how you have avoided Toppstuff's post then?

I missed his post, I did try to reply to all and I will get back to his right now, thanks for pointing it out to me. Do you have a opinion on the couple of examples questions I have posed regarding the horse and car fire?

[McWigglebum4th]

crankedup said:

Quite so, at least you reply with some humour. But I hope you see the more serious side of my questions relating to car fires and horses. I hope that some other posters may also reply to my simple questions.

Okay where should we draw the line

I'll agree the fire brigade should come along and pump out your garden to save your house from getting flooded


This is because of your nieghbour has failed to maintain his property

Maybe the fire brigade should fix his pipe also

I used to live in a top floor flat

Why weren't the fire brigade servicing my washing machine?

At which point to we draw the line and say enough


Should we just go the whole hog and give all our money to the government and leave them responsible for everything

[crankedup]

toppstuff said:

I live in similar circumstances. I am surrounded by fields, with drainage ditches all around my property.

Right now with all of the rain, the ditches are so full of water the house looks like it has a moat !

I also have a scruffy, unkempt neighbour down the lane who does not maintain his property very well.

Last Autumn I rented a mini digger and cleared all the ditches around me. I paid a guy two weeks ago to help me service all of them with a spade and shovel by hand to keep them clear.

I expect no help from anyone.

Neither should the OP. If he chooses to live in a rural area where drainage depends on ditches around or on your land, it comes with the lifestyle.

Blaming it on cutbacks is frankly ridiculous.

The OP clearly has a very well established mindset and simply sees everything through a lens that vindicates his view of the world. Odd. And wrong.

Its got nothing to do with politics. Its got nothing to do with Maggie, or the Tories.

When we had major flash flooding in 2007, bad enough to make dozens of families homeless in our area, I dashed home and with pickaxes and lump hammers, we had to break down walls and paving to redirect waterflow.

It is your problem. You live there. Take personal responsibility and stop expecting others to help you.

This thread demeans you. I can't for the life of me understand how you turn a local issue with your neighbour into a polemic about the government.

I'n sorry you are having aggravation, but come on...

Edited by toppstuff on Saturday 16th March 13:41

Its been pointed out to me that I failed to respond to your post Toppstuff, so :

Yes your situation sounded very like mine.
The major difference is that my offending neighbours property runs under his garage and house.
Yes I keep my drains clear like yourself doing the best I can.
Feel for you and neighbours regards the flooding, however,you were 'lucky' you had a couple of dozen homesteads and people to help you do work. I don't have that luxury, there are three of us, that's one who had a recent heart attack, myself being way past my best being a pensioner and one fit and able young guy. My lad also tried to help once he was aware we were in trouble he came over.
Yes of course I understand my countryside responsibilities and I think it extremely unfair that you should consider that I do not understand this. Please do read back my posts and you will see how much effort I put in. Some posters in here make far too many assumptions and I'm sorry to see you join that growing list on this occasion.
Yes I telephoned in the hope of receiving help NOT EXPECTATION. That is a big difference posters in here fail to understand.

[mph1977]

McWigglebum4th said:

So do please tell me why the FIRE brigade should of pumped water out of your garden?

is there a fire ?

is a threat of fire ?

is there a meaningful risk to life or limb that requires specialist rescue equipment ?

if you can't answer yes to one or more of those what the flip are you doing calling the fire service ?

McWigglebum4th said:

I also live in a rural location and i also suffer from water pouring off the fields.

Though strangely enough my first line of defence isn't a telephone and an attitude that it is someone else's problem.

The first thing I normally reach for is a spade and i dig out the drainage ditches. A few times it has come within an inch of flooding the house at which point i used my pump to clear it and I used my digger to clear dig out a soakaway.

Am i doing it wrong?

Should i be calling the fire brigade?

And then moaning about the evil tories because i'm a useless idiot?

exactly

[crankedup]

McWigglebum4th said:

crankedup said:

Quite so, at least you reply with some humour. But I hope you see the more serious side of my questions relating to car fires and horses. I hope that some other posters may also reply to my simple questions.

Okay where should we draw the line

I'll agree the fire brigade should come along and pump out your garden to save your house from getting flooded


This is because of your nieghbour has failed to maintain his property

Maybe the fire brigade should fix his pipe also

I used to live in a top floor flat

Why weren't the fire brigade servicing my washing machine?

At which point to we draw the line and say enough


Should we just go the whole hog and give all our money to the government and leave them responsible for everything

No, you still fail to address my questions in a meaningful fashion. I have to accept that I was wrong, in the opinion of some PH'ers, to call for Public Service assistance to help us. But fair play, at least you have the courtesy to respond.
I am asking these questions as a point of principle, many in here have seemingly enjoyed cutting me down with all sorts of exaggeration and word play. Apparently I am unworthy of living in England from the tone of some replies!
I simply would like to read of the same in depth responses applied to the two examples I mention that were applied to my situation. It seems to me to be reasonable scenarios relating to private property on private land, the strength of those POV will be interesting in these differing situations.