Pork with your brutally slaughtered sausages?

[Caulkhead]

Countdown said:

Jasandjules said:

The bottom line is the welfare of the animal to me.

You're in a minority. Given the slow decline of high street butchers I get the impression that the majority of people couldn't care less about the welfare of the animal as long as the meat was cheap.

Your impression is entirely wrong. The demand for ethically reared meat in the UK is vast and rising exponentially showing that most UK consumers consider the welfare of the animal when purchasing meat and only a tiny minority consider whether their deity has been suitably appeased during the process:

http://www.freedomfood.co.uk/press/2013/02/brits-s...

[Mr_B]

Countdown said:

Mr_B said:

6 Pages in and it's back to the usual " your picking on Muslims, you nasty racist people ". .

Not sure why really.

The thread started out with a bit of schadenfreude about Muslims eating pork by mistake. Then there were worries about them getting on the compensation bandwagon, then there were posts about "pandering" to Muslims who were "demanding" we "apologise" and finally we have posters saying this isn't anti-Muslim, it's about animal welfare. Innit.

I hope you can understand my scepticism

Very true of some. To brand everyone who opposes it though as being only motivated by racism is wrong though. Pick out those who you feel are doing it for such and say so if you or others wish, don't lets brand every and any thread on race and religious subjects as the " must be racist".

[Countdown]

Caulkhead said:

Your impression is entirely wrong. The demand for ethically reared meat in the UK is vast and rising exponentially showing that most UK consumers consider the welfare of the animal when purchasing meat and only a tiny minority consider whether their deity has been suitably appeased during the process:

http://www.freedomfood.co.uk/press/2013/02/brits-s...

So sainsburys ethical food sales are £231m. Sounds like its "vast" until you note that it's about 5% of its total food sales. I note the Freedomfood website doesn't quote any figures from other sermarkets. Furthermore a "vast" increase is easily achievable from a low base, as I'm sure you realise.

If the provenance of food was so important to "most" UK consumers we wouldn't be finding Rumanian horsemeat in Irish burgers.

[Mr_B]

McWigglebum4th said:

Mr_B said:

6 Pages in and it's back to the usual " your picking on Muslims, you nasty racist people ". It's a pity that no one else is even bothered we are talking about a primary school here were religiously slaughterd meat is needed, for kids that have no bloody clue on religion and animal welfare, just forced upon them by stupid adults.

So if we have a school where there is a alot of Muslim kids what should we feed them or should we not feed them?

Mr_B said:

True religiously slaughtered meat has no place in the UK today and should not be in the food chain unlabled.

So if two animals have a painless death but one has someone playing mumbo jumbo on a tape player could you please tell me what the difference is?

You missed my meaning of true halal, don't understand it, or dispute the science. The world moved away from such strict true religious slaughter to one which said was scientifically the least cruel to avoid prolonged suffering at slaughter.
Pre-stun halal I don't have a problem with, that's just amusing to see the lengths people go to to please the sky gods.

True or strict halal though has no place in this country and is a step backwards to please religious people only. Finding out if true halal is in schools or shops etc etc is hard to find out. I don't want it in the first place, but as nothing gets a label,so who knows ? It might be the case that none finds it's way into schools and is only bought by the truely fanatical religous. I still don't like that and don't believe it has any place as being available here.
Given the amount of information on food labels, not sure why it can't just be sold as what it is and avoid the whole issue.

[Countdown]

Jasandjules said:

I buy my meat from a local farmer and local butcher and even raw meat for the dogs from a local abbatoir. My meat is free range/organic. It IS more expensive but it is worth it.

Free range/organic might not be the animal idyll that you think it is.


http://www.peta.org/issues/animals-used-for-food/f...

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2011/04/...

http://www.veganoutreach.org/freerange/

[Colonial]

Jasandjules said:

But who says that some of us DO accept other pain/suffering etc. ?

I buy my meat from a local farmer and local butcher and even raw meat for the dogs from a local abbatoir. My meat is free range/organic. It IS more expensive but it is worth it.

And you'd be pissed off if it turned out to be supermarket style meat, right?

Yeah, not what you paid for and not what it was sold as.

Now do you see why they might be a bit upset?

[Rovinghawk]

Happy82 said:

Under Islamic law, Muslims are strictly forbidden to eat pork.

My copy of the Koran says that under certain very specific circumstances it's ok - based on the shar’i principle: “In cases of necessity, haraam things are permitted.”. It's the bible that specifically forbids it. Leviticus chapter 11 verse 7 and 8: Deuteronomy chapter 14 verse 8:

Have a read of each book & see what you think.

RH

Edited by Rovinghawk on Monday 18th March 23:04

[mattnunn]

Countdown said:

Jasandjules said:

I buy my meat from a local farmer and local butcher and even raw meat for the dogs from a local abbatoir. My meat is free range/organic. It IS more expensive but it is worth it.

Free range/organic might not be the animal idyll that you think it is.


http://www.peta.org/issues/animals-used-for-food/f...

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2011/04/...

http://www.veganoutreach.org/freerange/

Gary Francione is somewhat provocative in his argument and style but if you give some time to digesting the logic and rationale behind the argument it's pretty dificult to counter, he almost made a vegan out of me.

http://philosophybites.com/2012/10/gary-l-francion...

[Caulkhead]

Countdown said:

Caulkhead said:

Your impression is entirely wrong. The demand for ethically reared meat in the UK is vast and rising exponentially showing that most UK consumers consider the welfare of the animal when purchasing meat and only a tiny minority consider whether their deity has been suitably appeased during the process:

http://www.freedomfood.co.uk/press/2013/02/brits-s...

So sainsburys ethical food sales are £231m. Sounds like its "vast" until you note that it's about 5% of its total food sales. I note the Freedomfood website doesn't quote any figures from other sermarkets. Furthermore a "vast" increase is easily achievable from a low base, as I'm sure you realise.

If the provenance of food was so important to "most" UK consumers we wouldn't be finding Rumanian horsemeat in Irish burgers.

A ridiculous conclusion - the supermarkets themselves claimed to have not known what was in the meat so how could the public? If the British public are so unconcerned why did sales drop 43% when the truth was revealed?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/re...

That 5% may seem small to you but it's only one scheme and 5% is significantly more than percentage of the UK population that is muslim.

[Victor McDade]

Caulkhead said:

The demand for ethically reared meat in the UK is vast and rising exponentially showing that most UK consumers consider the welfare of the animal when purchasing meat and only a tiny minority consider whether their deity has been suitably appeased during the process:

http://www.freedomfood.co.uk/press/2013/02/brits-s...

It may be a rising market however to suggest 'most UK consumers consider the welfare of the animal when purchasing meat' is quite a statement to make. What do you base this assumption on?

Caulkhead said:

A ridiculous conclusion - the supermarkets themselves claimed to have not known what was in the meat so how could the public? If the British public are so unconcerned why did sales drop 43% when the truth was revealed?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/re...

That 5% may seem small to you but it's only one scheme and 5% is significantly more than percentage of the UK population that is muslim.

It's not. In fact it's almost the same. Actually once you factor in the people who wouldn't fill in a census (illegal immigrants, student visa over-stayers for example) I bet the number is well in excess of 5%.

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/census/2011-census/k...

Edited by Victor McDade on Tuesday 19th March 12:31

[Countdown]

Caulkhead said:

A ridiculous conclusion - the supermarkets themselves claimed to have not known what was in the meat so how could the public? If the British public are so unconcerned why did sales drop 43% when the truth was revealed?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/re...

Sales dropped because food was found to contain horsemeat, NOT because customers suddenly realised that Tesco Value Burgers didn't come from hand-reared calves. Customers have always known this and have accepted it because price has been more important than any issue of animal welfare.

Caulkhead said:

That 5% may seem small to you but it's only one scheme and 5% is significantly more than percentage of the UK population that is muslim.

5% of 10 schemes is still 5% . Also I'd bet that Sainsbury's customers are less price-led than customers of Asda, Tesco, or Morrisons.

[Jasandjules]

Countdown said:

You're in a minority. Given the slow decline of high street butchers I get the impression that the majority of people couldn't care less about the welfare of the animal as long as the meat was cheap.

I know. And the worst part is some of our friends who advocate animal welfare then go out and buy cheap meat and even battery farmed eggs.

But I know my local farmer and butchers quite well, visit the farmer frequently for starters, I have seen how some calves arrive at their place and what they do to make them much better and take care of them.

And I live in a rural part of the country where a lot of people do buy from the local butchers I am happy to say.

[elster]

odyssey2200 said:

Terminator X said:

No different to the horsemeat shenanigans, if I want to eat horsemeat I'll buy it ffs pls don't put it in my beef burgers. Substitute pork and halal above = same issue.

TX.

Not really.

Horse meat is not normally eaten in the UK at all and the Bute issue raises health issues, whereas Pork/Bacon/Ham are eaten everyday by millions in the UK except those who choose not to because of some outdated belief in a fairy story.

Horse meet is eaten in the UK, and a lot more than you think.

Bute is not a health issue. Unless you at about a tonne of it.

This is no different to either story, of which the only issue is not labelling accurately, nothing more. The rest is just a massive 'wont somebody think of the children'