Who is most hated - Thatcher or Blair
Discussion
Kermit power said:
Getragdogleg said:
Both as hated but the people that hate Blair hate him for different reasons to those who hated Thatcher.
The Blair haters are less likely to make a song and dance about it and hold the grudge for the next 30 years and are more likely to shrug and think "that's politics" whereas the Thatcher haters are more of the knee jerk-never forget mindset.
You really think that????The Blair haters are less likely to make a song and dance about it and hold the grudge for the next 30 years and are more likely to shrug and think "that's politics" whereas the Thatcher haters are more of the knee jerk-never forget mindset.
Love her or hate her, I reckon most people at least thought Thatcher was doing what she thought was right for the country, and wasn't acting out of pure self promotion.
Blair, on the other hand? A lying, conniving, deceitful, underhand self-serving scumbag who deserves to be remembered as the most despicable PM this country has ever had and despised for time immemorial.
I'd be interested if any PH'ers or their parents purchased their council homes and if they became tory overnight?
IMHO Maggie was let down in her final term by her bloody chancellor.
Phil
ATG said:
Worth remembering that Thatcher was a fan of Blair even before she lost her marbles.
Truth is they are two of the the most effective PMs this country has ever had and they both achieved an enormous amount ... and also cocked some stuff up too. The impact they had on their parties was enormous.
It doesn't matter who you are or what you've achieved. If you've been in office for a couple of terms, the public will get tired of your face and start blaming you for all the perceived problems of the country regardless of whether the government could reasonably be expected to have intervened or not.
The current "hatred" of Blair is just the tail end of that response. The idea that he was only motivated by self interest is utterly absurd. No serious political observer makes that charge regardless of their own political persuasion. It is very hard to argue that another PM would have kept us out of Afghanistan or Iraq, be it a Tory or an electable Labour PM.
Time has to pass before we collectively get a bit of historical perspective and Blair's time in office is still far too recent for that to have happened.
Seriously?????Truth is they are two of the the most effective PMs this country has ever had and they both achieved an enormous amount ... and also cocked some stuff up too. The impact they had on their parties was enormous.
It doesn't matter who you are or what you've achieved. If you've been in office for a couple of terms, the public will get tired of your face and start blaming you for all the perceived problems of the country regardless of whether the government could reasonably be expected to have intervened or not.
The current "hatred" of Blair is just the tail end of that response. The idea that he was only motivated by self interest is utterly absurd. No serious political observer makes that charge regardless of their own political persuasion. It is very hard to argue that another PM would have kept us out of Afghanistan or Iraq, be it a Tory or an electable Labour PM.
Time has to pass before we collectively get a bit of historical perspective and Blair's time in office is still far too recent for that to have happened.
What on earth do you think Tony Blair achieved???
Obviously, he achieved an immense amount in terms of feathering his own nest, but I can't think of one single thing he achieved for the good of the country.
If it wasn't for Maggie and her policies the country would be a far worse place than it is now - I believe that's a fact.
Creation of wealth and a future for the ordinary person who wants to try and have it.
As I've mentioned and as has been said, all governments since have pretty much adopted versions of her policies and the rubbish I hear about Maggie setting out to 'destroy' the unions/coal business is utter rubbish. Those around 50 will remember the damage the unions did to the UK manufacturing sector, the 3 day week, the dark nights with power cuts and the youngsters who don't, go and read what a s
t-pit we lived in and how the unions were bloody determined to run the country.......their way or no way.
Of course you can have Blair/Brown Labour's UK which appears to be essentially a second/third generation benefit culture with a hard core of non-working slobs who believe the country owes them a living.................not for me thanks.
Creation of wealth and a future for the ordinary person who wants to try and have it.
As I've mentioned and as has been said, all governments since have pretty much adopted versions of her policies and the rubbish I hear about Maggie setting out to 'destroy' the unions/coal business is utter rubbish. Those around 50 will remember the damage the unions did to the UK manufacturing sector, the 3 day week, the dark nights with power cuts and the youngsters who don't, go and read what a s
t-pit we lived in and how the unions were bloody determined to run the country.......their way or no way.Of course you can have Blair/Brown Labour's UK which appears to be essentially a second/third generation benefit culture with a hard core of non-working slobs who believe the country owes them a living.................not for me thanks.
Edited by HoHoHo on Friday 12th December 16:04
HoHoHo said:
If it wasn't for Maggie and her policies the country would be a far worse place than it is now - I believe that's a fact.
Creation of wealth and a future for the ordinary person who wants to try and have it.
As I've mentioned and as has been said, all governments since have pretty much adopted versions of her policies and the rubbish I hear about Maggie setting out to 'destroy' the unions/coal business is utter rubbish. Those around 50 will remember the damage the unions did to the UK manufacturing sector, the 3 day week, the dark nights with power cuts and the youngsters who don't, go and read what a st-pit we lived in and how the unions were bloody determined to run the country.......their way or no way.
I'm not yet 50 (44, in fact), so I have mixed memories of the period before Thatcher...Creation of wealth and a future for the ordinary person who wants to try and have it.
As I've mentioned and as has been said, all governments since have pretty much adopted versions of her policies and the rubbish I hear about Maggie setting out to 'destroy' the unions/coal business is utter rubbish. Those around 50 will remember the damage the unions did to the UK manufacturing sector, the 3 day week, the dark nights with power cuts and the youngsters who don't, go and read what a s
t-pit we lived in and how the unions were bloody determined to run the country.......their way or no way.I can still remember now not having to do piano practice because the electricity was out, and there was no way of lighting the music with a candle that didn't risk burning the house down!
On the other hand, I can also remember thinking that the huge pile of bin bags looked like it might be fun to climb on, before noticing just how many rats had already had the same idea.
Kermit power said:
HoHoHo said:
If it wasn't for Maggie and her policies the country would be a far worse place than it is now - I believe that's a fact.
Creation of wealth and a future for the ordinary person who wants to try and have it.
As I've mentioned and as has been said, all governments since have pretty much adopted versions of her policies and the rubbish I hear about Maggie setting out to 'destroy' the unions/coal business is utter rubbish. Those around 50 will remember the damage the unions did to the UK manufacturing sector, the 3 day week, the dark nights with power cuts and the youngsters who don't, go and read what a st-pit we lived in and how the unions were bloody determined to run the country.......their way or no way.
I'm not yet 50 (44, in fact), so I have mixed memories of the period before Thatcher...Creation of wealth and a future for the ordinary person who wants to try and have it.
As I've mentioned and as has been said, all governments since have pretty much adopted versions of her policies and the rubbish I hear about Maggie setting out to 'destroy' the unions/coal business is utter rubbish. Those around 50 will remember the damage the unions did to the UK manufacturing sector, the 3 day week, the dark nights with power cuts and the youngsters who don't, go and read what a s
t-pit we lived in and how the unions were bloody determined to run the country.......their way or no way.I can still remember now not having to do piano practice because the electricity was out, and there was no way of lighting the music with a candle that didn't risk burning the house down!
On the other hand, I can also remember thinking that the huge pile of bin bags looked like it might be fun to climb on, before noticing just how many rats had already had the same idea.
You tell the kids today and they don't believe you!
HoHoHo said:
Kermit power said:
HoHoHo said:
If it wasn't for Maggie and her policies the country would be a far worse place than it is now - I believe that's a fact.
Creation of wealth and a future for the ordinary person who wants to try and have it.
As I've mentioned and as has been said, all governments since have pretty much adopted versions of her policies and the rubbish I hear about Maggie setting out to 'destroy' the unions/coal business is utter rubbish. Those around 50 will remember the damage the unions did to the UK manufacturing sector, the 3 day week, the dark nights with power cuts and the youngsters who don't, go and read what a st-pit we lived in and how the unions were bloody determined to run the country.......their way or no way.
I'm not yet 50 (44, in fact), so I have mixed memories of the period before Thatcher...Creation of wealth and a future for the ordinary person who wants to try and have it.
As I've mentioned and as has been said, all governments since have pretty much adopted versions of her policies and the rubbish I hear about Maggie setting out to 'destroy' the unions/coal business is utter rubbish. Those around 50 will remember the damage the unions did to the UK manufacturing sector, the 3 day week, the dark nights with power cuts and the youngsters who don't, go and read what a s
t-pit we lived in and how the unions were bloody determined to run the country.......their way or no way.I can still remember now not having to do piano practice because the electricity was out, and there was no way of lighting the music with a candle that didn't risk burning the house down!
On the other hand, I can also remember thinking that the huge pile of bin bags looked like it might be fun to climb on, before noticing just how many rats had already had the same idea.
You tell the kids today and they don't believe you!
HoHoHo said:
Ahh, bins not collected, how could I forget that little nugget!
You tell the kids today and they don't believe you!
And the bodies piling up in the morgues because the gravediggers went on strike, just about every industry went on strike at sometime in 70s. I remember my dad being called out on the Green Goddess in '77 when the Fire Brigade went on strike, IIRC got a Queen's Commendation for keeping London safe from fire.You tell the kids today and they don't believe you!
My Mark 9 is still in a state from the weather damage caused while I was away 
Pickled said:
motco said:
And roads not gritted on a freezing, snow-covered winter's night.
Still happens nowadays!motco said:
Not on this scale. The M40 was untreated and covered in hard glazed snow/ice over all the lanes both ways. I drove along it and could make the speedometer read any speed I liked simply by opening and closing the throttle and listening to the engine note rise and fall. The speed of the car did not change one iota, only the approximate direction it was pointing did! The car - some high powered supercar? No, a rented Morris Ital with barely the torque to pull the skin off a rice pudding.
When we had the bad snow a couple of years back, I was stuck on Reigate Hill section of the M25 for 4 hours because it was completely blocked by snow, and this was one junction away from the HA depot.Pickled said:
motco said:
Not on this scale. The M40 was untreated and covered in hard glazed snow/ice over all the lanes both ways. I drove along it and could make the speedometer read any speed I liked simply by opening and closing the throttle and listening to the engine note rise and fall. The speed of the car did not change one iota, only the approximate direction it was pointing did! The car - some high powered supercar? No, a rented Morris Ital with barely the torque to pull the skin off a rice pudding.
When we had the bad snow a couple of years back, I was stuck on Reigate Hill section of the M25 for 4 hours because it was completely blocked by snow, and this was one junction away from the HA depot.fblm said:
Coal mining was in long term decline long before and long after Thatcher. She barely registers as a blip.
No matter how many times people are shown that graph, they will always blame Thatcher if they are left leaning (they always need a bogey man to blame) . Much the same as the 'Thatcher milk snatcher' tag, I believe she inherited the policy to remove milk in schools. "In 1968, under Harold Wilson, the Labour government scrapped free milk for secondary school pupils.
After Thatchers cuts, subsidies were introduced to allow schools to provide milk but most of these were cut in the 1995 Budget."
"Responding to the demands to end free school milk, Mrs Thatcher said: "I think that the complete withdrawal of free milk for our school children would be too drastic a step and would arouse more widespread public antagonism than the saving justifies."
She proposed the compromise, later accepted, that milk would only be available to pupils in nursery and primary schools.
She told the Treasury that this would reduce the proposed cuts by £20m over the four-year life of the government and would free up cash for a new primary school building programme."
I guess if something get repeated enough, it soon becomes the perceived truth.
Scargill admited he wanted to bring down the government, he just picked the wrong person to have that fight with, if anyone needs to be vilified for the strike it should be him, he let down the miners he represented and used them for his own political gains.
And if Foot had got in you can be certain the Falklands would have been handed over without a fuss, and our military would have resembled Dad's army.
Edited by Pickled on Friday 12th December 18:59
motco said:
Pickled said:
motco said:
And roads not gritted on a freezing, snow-covered winter's night.
Still happens nowadays!I once drove an ital over the snake pass when the sow was so bad you could not even see 10 feet in front back in 1988
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