Wealth inequality grows.
Discussion
FredClogs said:
And the idea that people "make" money is also a nonsense, money is never "made" by private enterprise, the amount of money available is only ever increased by two means, inflationary growth and governments printing/borrowing money. The last 10 years has seen more money printed (borrowed) than in almost any time in human history (coinciding with western governments trying very hard to control inflation) and yet during that same time the wealth gap has widened, there is only one conclusion we can draw from this isn't there?
Money arises from debt. Money is made by banks out of thin air isn't it? not by governments, well not much of it anyway. The figure I've seen is that 97% of money is created by banks (from their "magic money trees" that the right wing seem so dismissive of..)If you follow the link in this tweet there are lots of pretty good things going on
https://twitter.com/billgates/status/5511069782953...
https://twitter.com/billgates/status/5511069782953...
FredClogs said:
Seems sensible if we implement a minimum wage policy that a maximum wage policy could also be introduced. In Venezuela public officials are limited to a max salary of 12times the average - seems reasonable. Germany do it, the Swiss do it, I believe the Swedes and New Zealand do it - I mean it's not revolutionary marxist ideology, just seems like common sense, and if our politics in this country wasn't so corrupted I think any party who put in their manifesto would win votes.
Like b
ks the Swiss do. We had a referendum here last year and it was sensibly voted down. It's socialist nonsense. Why 12 times? Why not 20? Why not 2?This article doesn't make any mention of Germany, Sweden or NZ either.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximum_wage
What matters is how poor the poorest are and how they are treated, not the gap between the richest and poorest. I'd rather have a roof over my head next door to a mansion than be homeless, so long as my neighbour was too.
fblm said:
franki68 said:
My economic knowledge is limited to my business trading but surely if the poorest countries have the highest birth rates , poverty is always going to increase on a global scale?
Spot on. Phd in Economics not needed to understand simple maths.On the whole things are improving but while the concept of a rising tide lifting all boats is kind of true, some aren't rising as fast as others.
Part of the issue with Africa that I don't think is generally understood is that they do not see our lives with great envy as we like to assume. I think it's fair to assume everyone in the world wants prosperity as far as it brings law, peace and health, but we shouldn't fool ourselves into thinking our way is the model all wish to follow.
Despite our easy, decadent lives, how many of us are stressed, miserable or suffering depression? We have a shrinking sense of community, we spend a ridiculous amount of our time working meaning we don't see our families or friends. For somebody on the outside looking in, does that really look like such a wonderful way to live your life?
durbster said:
Despite our easy, decadent lives, how many of us are stressed, miserable or suffering depression? We have a shrinking sense of community, we spend a ridiculous amount of our time working meaning we don't see our families or friends. For somebody on the outside looking in, does that really look like such a wonderful way to live your life?
Someone on the radio the other day was saying that 10% of schoolchildren have a diagnosable mental health disorder.FredClogs said:
I think you're a tad confused, North Korea isn't a good example of a country with a narrowing wealth gap and South Korea isn't a particularly good example of a country with a very wide wealth gap.
Wage caps seem to work in sport, they seem to work in some countries, proper economists have done proper economics around their possible use in wider economies. Scaled taxation is effectively a means capping wealth (if it's implemented correctly and can't be loop holed) seems to work okay in a lot of places.
Seems sensible if we implement a minimum wage policy that a maximum wage policy could also be introduced. In Venezuela public officials are limited to a max salary of 12times the average - seems reasonable. Germany do it, the Swiss do it, I believe the Swedes and New Zealand do it - I mean it's not revolutionary marxist ideology, just seems like common sense, and if our politics in this country wasn't so corrupted I think any party who put in their manifesto would win votes.
Germany, Switzerland, New Zealand and Sweden do not have maximum wage rules for private companies. There are public sector pay bands in NZ, but if they wanted a higher band they can just create one. One of the highest paid guys in NZ public sector is paid based on fund performance and can have NZ$ 10-100'sk changes per year.Wage caps seem to work in sport, they seem to work in some countries, proper economists have done proper economics around their possible use in wider economies. Scaled taxation is effectively a means capping wealth (if it's implemented correctly and can't be loop holed) seems to work okay in a lot of places.
Seems sensible if we implement a minimum wage policy that a maximum wage policy could also be introduced. In Venezuela public officials are limited to a max salary of 12times the average - seems reasonable. Germany do it, the Swiss do it, I believe the Swedes and New Zealand do it - I mean it's not revolutionary marxist ideology, just seems like common sense, and if our politics in this country wasn't so corrupted I think any party who put in their manifesto would win votes.
scherzkeks said:
eyebeebe said:
What matters is how poor the poorest are and how they are treated, not the gap between the richest and poorest.
Um, no. That matters, too.turbobloke said:
No, it doesn't. The poorest on an international perspective will never know whether the CEO in a FTSE outfit is awarded a pay rise from £1m to £1.5m pa and trousers a hefty bonus. Clearly it matters to political activism in any developed society that seeks to exploit the poorest for its own political ends.
Yes, it does. And your post is a non-sequitur, since no one is talking about whether the poor know how much a random CEO earns. The effects of income inequality on society at large are well-documented.scherzkeks said:
turbobloke said:
No, it doesn't. The poorest on an international perspective will never know whether the CEO in a FTSE outfit is awarded a pay rise from £1m to £1.5m pa and trousers a hefty bonus. Clearly it matters to political activism in any developed society that seeks to exploit the poorest for its own political ends.
Yes, it does. And your post is a non-sequitur, since no one is talking about whether the poor know how much a random CEO earns. The effects of income inequality on society at large are well-documented.You need to explain how a London-based CEO pay rise and bonus extending the income and wealth gap compared to a slum-dwelling street vendor on Sukhumvit Road in Bangkok has any meaning or material relevance whatsoever to the Thai, who will never know about it but may well note a lack of tourists and drop in sales/income if middle income Brits stay at home due to being taxed out of a long haul flight. It certainly has relevance to politically active wealthy westerners who seek to exploit poverty for their own ends.
What matters is not the wealth gap above widening, but primarily whether the vendor earns enough to house, feed and clothe themselves and any dependents.
LucreLout said:
Bodo said:
So we have wealth and income inequality. Why is this a problem?
It usually comes down to jealousy and spite, in my experience. Socialists will repackage the hell out of it and plead that it's different this time, but it never takes long for the mask to slip.I'm 100% sure that all people are individuals, have different aspirations/talents/targets for self-fulfilment. Even if we manage to remove wealth inequality, people will still have enough reasons to be jealous, since there will always be someone who is smarter/more lucky/etc.
Fighting inequality will be a hopeless endeavour.
Shouldn't we work on the jealousy, rather than complaining about inequality?
turbobloke said:
scherzkeks said:
turbobloke said:
No, it doesn't. The poorest on an international perspective will never know whether the CEO in a FTSE outfit is awarded a pay rise from £1m to £1.5m pa and trousers a hefty bonus. Clearly it matters to political activism in any developed society that seeks to exploit the poorest for its own political ends.
Yes, it does. And your post is a non-sequitur, since no one is talking about whether the poor know how much a random CEO earns. The effects of income inequality on society at large are well-documented.You need to explain how a London-based CEO pay rise and bonus extending the income and wealth gap compared to a slum-dwelling street vendor on Sukhumvit Road in Bangkok has any meaning or material relevance whatsoever to the Thai, who will never know about it but may well note a lack of tourists and drop in sales/income if middle income Brits stay at home due to being taxed out of a long haul flight. It certainly has relevance to politically active wealthy westerners who seek to exploit poverty for their own ends.
What matters is not the wealth gap above widening, but primarily whether the vendor earns enough to house, feed and clothe themselves and any dependents.
Rovinghawk said:
In simple terms- if I get paid lots extra it won't make any difference to your life.
But if only a few of us get paid "lots extra" and many of us considerably less, it will affect communities and societies. The negative effects of income inequality on a society are well-documented. Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff