EU Referendum Poll - Final Call
Poll: EU Referendum Poll - Final Call
Total Members Polled: 803
Discussion
lostkiwi said:
CaptainSlow said:
lostkiwi said:
And by not doing as the Council/Parliament wants they get themselves canned for any reappointment. Same as any democracy.
What was the problem there?
Lack of transparency and accountability. A UK PM could reappoint a Commissioner who routinely ignores opposition party MEPs. What was the problem there?
MEPs need to be able to directly propose legislation in a form similar to the UK's private members Bills, anything less is unacceptable.
The MEPs are able to reject a Commission as a whole not individual Commissioners, so each Commissioner is not individually accountable. What has happened in the past is that unfavourable Commissioners have be appointed as the Commission as a whole has been seen as a least bad option. Madness.
You claim to have a knowledge of how the EU governs but maybe you should start reading some of those links you are keen to keep posting.
I'm voting Leave, don't want to be governed for ever by the self selecting TinPotEu.
However bad the UK system is it's been running for 100's of years whereas the people voting to stay in will be giving tacit agreement for the EU to keep going with more and more unremovable people lording it over the peons and especially us in the UK.
On the Vote-In side they say it's about the economy but that is a short term thing (1-2-5-10 years) not for life.
Once were fully inside the EU, the perpetual merry-go-round of ex and failed ministers will be quaffing on your money forever and also their offspring who will be parachuted in when there time comes keeping that gravy train going till the milk is well and truly curdled.
However bad the UK system is it's been running for 100's of years whereas the people voting to stay in will be giving tacit agreement for the EU to keep going with more and more unremovable people lording it over the peons and especially us in the UK.
On the Vote-In side they say it's about the economy but that is a short term thing (1-2-5-10 years) not for life.
Once were fully inside the EU, the perpetual merry-go-round of ex and failed ministers will be quaffing on your money forever and also their offspring who will be parachuted in when there time comes keeping that gravy train going till the milk is well and truly curdled.
zbc said:
TroubledSoul said:
I'm just worried about making the wrong decision to be honest. My gut feeling is that the only reason to vote Brexit is to get back control of the immigration situation. I'm as yet unconvinced that this is enough on its own.
I worry that the government still wouldn't do this though. It would certainly have strengthened DCs hand in the debate if he had been keeping non EU immigration under more control now but he's failed to do even this. I'm sure none of the other parties would be any stronger.One of the reasons I'm a remainer is that I've taken the opportunity to live and work in the EU although I'm about to head back so it's hard for me to criticise the immigration policy. I think the solution is doing more about managing the benefits that immigrants can claim, making the UK less attractive as a destination.
Interesting watch
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYqzcqDtL3k
Aside of the economic, political and migration issues for which there are solid arguments for Remain and Leave - these EU people bureaucrats really have there snouts in the trough. Makes you understand why the majority of UK MP's really don't want to Leave
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYqzcqDtL3k
Aside of the economic, political and migration issues for which there are solid arguments for Remain and Leave - these EU people bureaucrats really have there snouts in the trough. Makes you understand why the majority of UK MP's really don't want to Leave
Keep in mind that not only is the EU making a hash of the US trade agreement, they STARTED negotiating with the S.America bloc in 1999!!!!!!!!!
It's laughable to suggest the EU is good for UK trade. We are ignoring natural trading partners. And subsidizing EU countries/businesses to compete against ourselves.
Every other country that has left or declined the EU has flourished.
To believe that leaving the EU represents any significant financial risk to the UK is risible.
It's laughable to suggest the EU is good for UK trade. We are ignoring natural trading partners. And subsidizing EU countries/businesses to compete against ourselves.
Every other country that has left or declined the EU has flourished.
To believe that leaving the EU represents any significant financial risk to the UK is risible.
lostkiwi said:
There is a lot of good unbiased information on fullfact.org. This is a charity and by law it cannot take sides so is about as unbiased as I've found.
Well worth a read to help you decide what the best course is in your mind and how it affects your priorities.
Cheers I'm genuinely keen to do as much research as I can in the next 48 hours. Well worth a read to help you decide what the best course is in your mind and how it affects your priorities.
TroubledSoul said:
don4l said:
The opposite is more likely.
Take the German manufacturers, for example.
They export twice as many cars to the UK as we export to them. If we Brexit without a trade deal, then cars made in Germany will attract an import duty of 10%.
BMW would have to either accept the 10% levy, or they could increase production here. Which do you think is more likely?
Valid point, but what about the Japanese manufacturers? Take the German manufacturers, for example.
They export twice as many cars to the UK as we export to them. If we Brexit without a trade deal, then cars made in Germany will attract an import duty of 10%.
BMW would have to either accept the 10% levy, or they could increase production here. Which do you think is more likely?
The truth is that leaving the single market isn't all bad news. We run a huge trade deficit with the EU, and my BMW case is a simple example of what the result would be. The same thing could happen in any industry where we import more than we export, assuming that there are tariffs. For example, my industry wouldn't see any change at all, as there are no tariffs.
don4l said:
TroubledSoul said:
don4l said:
The opposite is more likely.
Take the German manufacturers, for example.
They export twice as many cars to the UK as we export to them. If we Brexit without a trade deal, then cars made in Germany will attract an import duty of 10%.
BMW would have to either accept the 10% levy, or they could increase production here. Which do you think is more likely?
Valid point, but what about the Japanese manufacturers? Take the German manufacturers, for example.
They export twice as many cars to the UK as we export to them. If we Brexit without a trade deal, then cars made in Germany will attract an import duty of 10%.
BMW would have to either accept the 10% levy, or they could increase production here. Which do you think is more likely?
The truth is that leaving the single market isn't all bad news. We run a huge trade deficit with the EU, and my BMW case is a simple example of what the result would be. The same thing could happen in any industry where we import more than we export, assuming that there are tariffs. For example, my industry wouldn't see any change at all, as there are no tariffs.
zbc said:
Your BMW case is wrong as I explained above. BMW will not build a new factory in the UK spending billions of Euros just to make a few more cars for the UK. The size of the market is not enough. Most industries would see little change as the tariffs are quite small and in any case currency fluctuations would be a more serious problem as they are today.
You think that my case is wrong. I think it is correct.The UK accounts for about a fifth of all cars produced in Germany.
It looks like the FT agrees with me:-
[ur]https://next.ft.com/content/f6cda050-20bb-11e5-aa5a-398b2169cf79[/url]
don4l said:
You think that my case is wrong. I think it is correct.
The UK accounts for about a fifth of all cars produced in Germany.
It looks like the FT agrees with me:-
https://next.ft.com/content/f6cda050-20bb-11e5-aa5...
Can't read it as I don't have a subscription but as the headline is "German car makers raise fears over Brexit" I'm not convinced. Also it's not what was said by BMW in March. They warned about job losses in the UK. Not sure how that means more cars being made. By the way this one is not blocked http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/eu-...The UK accounts for about a fifth of all cars produced in Germany.
It looks like the FT agrees with me:-
https://next.ft.com/content/f6cda050-20bb-11e5-aa5...
On the subject of Germany, Merkel is quite right to fear a UK exit (not that that will happen, as in the event of Brexit, our EU deal will just get re-negotiated). Her position domestically is a bit wobbly to say the least (Greek bail outs, Refugees etc)
http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-german...
There's alot of talk about GBP taking a hammering in the event of Brexit, but the Euro would also come under immense pressure as Brexit could then pave the way for the demise of the Euro zone; FREXIT, Greece renegotiating its deal etc etc etc
http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-german...
There's alot of talk about GBP taking a hammering in the event of Brexit, but the Euro would also come under immense pressure as Brexit could then pave the way for the demise of the Euro zone; FREXIT, Greece renegotiating its deal etc etc etc
TroubledSoul said:
I'd like some help here. The "Leavers" seem to be a bunch of aggressive knowitalls at the moment.
Is the current situation ideal? No. I'd go as far as to say that I hate the EU telling us what to do, I hate the uncontrolled immigration and I hate the fact that they treat us with utter contempt everytime we ask for anything.
But I'm currently 70/30 in favour of Remain.
Why?
Well I just can't accept that leaving is worth the risk. I'm still open to being convinced otherwise but I can't see it happening at the moment.
What happens when all of the big industry i.e. car manufacturers etc. relocate to mainland Europe, thus decimating the North East and other areas reliant on the local factories? This WILL happen if we leave. Why would you pay the taxes to export to the EU from the UK when it's a much larger market? You wouldn't, you would relocate and send stuff back here instead. That will both weaken the economy and significantly increase the welfare bill.
What happens if Donald Trump gets elected in the USA? He already said that he would expect allies to pay for American protection etc. so we get fleeced by them if we want their military support. If we say no and it all kicks off, what will the EU say to us when we ask for help?
Will we lose free movement within Europe?
Will the SNP automatically declare that whatever the result, it isn't what they wanted?
What is it that people actually think will get better? Everybody must surely accept that the economy will suffer and we will become a much poorer country. Public spending will obviously be cut massively.
We'll no longer have much of a say in world matters.
And we'll have even less chance of winning Eurovision
on friday morning i would advise you board your home up from the inside, go into the cupboard under the stairs and hide from the new european order of things . people are sick to the back teeth of politicians, the establishment and those running the eu. scary pronouncements of you will all be poor with no pensions if you do not toe the line and keep propping up said institutions and politicians while they milk the system to their advantage will not wash anymore. this is the information age, the lies and bullsIs the current situation ideal? No. I'd go as far as to say that I hate the EU telling us what to do, I hate the uncontrolled immigration and I hate the fact that they treat us with utter contempt everytime we ask for anything.
But I'm currently 70/30 in favour of Remain.
Why?
Well I just can't accept that leaving is worth the risk. I'm still open to being convinced otherwise but I can't see it happening at the moment.
What happens when all of the big industry i.e. car manufacturers etc. relocate to mainland Europe, thus decimating the North East and other areas reliant on the local factories? This WILL happen if we leave. Why would you pay the taxes to export to the EU from the UK when it's a much larger market? You wouldn't, you would relocate and send stuff back here instead. That will both weaken the economy and significantly increase the welfare bill.
What happens if Donald Trump gets elected in the USA? He already said that he would expect allies to pay for American protection etc. so we get fleeced by them if we want their military support. If we say no and it all kicks off, what will the EU say to us when we ask for help?
Will we lose free movement within Europe?
Will the SNP automatically declare that whatever the result, it isn't what they wanted?
What is it that people actually think will get better? Everybody must surely accept that the economy will suffer and we will become a much poorer country. Public spending will obviously be cut massively.
We'll no longer have much of a say in world matters.
And we'll have even less chance of winning Eurovision
t ,along with just how much greed and avarice the public purse pays for is there in black and white for all to see.last night i watched the prime minister of the united kingdom utterly humiliated on television . he was laughed at. think about that for a minute. i have done a bit of travelling the last few days , spoken to people in both england and scotland regarding their views on the referendum in general conversation and am now convinced the vote will be for leave, in excess of 60% . previously i had to admit that the reason that 90% of people i know were leave voters was due to them being in the same social circle. the last few days has me believing the only areas that will vote remain will be london and edinburgh .
people want our own politicians to be 100% accountable for what happens in this country. they want them to know their first and quite possibly only responsibility is to do their very best for the people of this country. they seem to have forgotten this somewhere along the line . the labour and tory parties as they currently stand are a disgrace. completely disconnected from the people that put them where they are , stuck in a self absorbed echo chamber of a bubble while the people of this country look at them wondering just wtf is going on in their minds.
funnily enough similar sentiment exists all across europe ,when the uk votes leave on thursday it is only the beginning of change across the european political spectrum . it seems to me people now realise more government and more politicians are never, ever a good thing. they suck the lifeblood out of people and the economy ,leading to stagnation of both. hopefully on friday morning those charged with running the uk and europe for the benefit of the people that select them will get the wake up call they have long needed. all imo of course.
Beati Dogu said:
lionelf said:
Beati Dogu said:
dirty boy said:
Same idiots running our country as in Brussels, just with a different language, so it's a choice that's not as straight forward as you make it sound. We're not 'governed' by Brussels it's just a place where 27 countries come together and agree on stuff after a lot of twoing and froing to ensure all are happy.
People like you frighten me. The majority of our laws and regulation come direct from the EU. By any definition, we are government by the EU.https://fullfact.org/europe/uk-law-what-proportion...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XU_SWwDX3O0
The House of Commons Library have now said (blogged) that it was "possible to justify" any figure between 15% and 55% , and the real answer lies somewhere in between.
"The limitations of data make it impossible to achieve an accurate measure" they said.
zbc said:
don4l said:
You think that my case is wrong. I think it is correct.
The UK accounts for about a fifth of all cars produced in Germany.
It looks like the FT agrees with me:-
https://next.ft.com/content/f6cda050-20bb-11e5-aa5...
Can't read it as I don't have a subscription but as the headline is "German car makers raise fears over Brexit" I'm not convinced. Also it's not what was said by BMW in March. They warned about job losses in the UK. Not sure how that means more cars being made. By the way this one is not blocked http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/eu-...The UK accounts for about a fifth of all cars produced in Germany.
It looks like the FT agrees with me:-
https://next.ft.com/content/f6cda050-20bb-11e5-aa5...
the Germman carmakers are worried that Brexit will adversely affect them.
Copy and paste the following. The page is the first hit for me.
German car makers raise fears over Brexit FT
I can see where the car companies are coming from here. Car manufacturing works at the very least on an European scale and in some respects a global.
A car assembly plant in the UK will be using parts from all over Europe and cars made outside the UK are often using UK made parts. BMWs made in Germany will be using UK assembled engines, Fords made in Spain will have engines from Dagenham, seats from somewhere else, tyres from somewhere else etc.
It is an important part of the setup that parts, people and technology moves seamlessly between them all and any disruption, delays or added cost will cause complications.
A car assembly plant in the UK will be using parts from all over Europe and cars made outside the UK are often using UK made parts. BMWs made in Germany will be using UK assembled engines, Fords made in Spain will have engines from Dagenham, seats from somewhere else, tyres from somewhere else etc.
It is an important part of the setup that parts, people and technology moves seamlessly between them all and any disruption, delays or added cost will cause complications.
confused_buyer said:
I can see where the car companies are coming from here. Car manufacturing works at the very least on an European scale and in some respects a global.
A car assembly plant in the UK will be using parts from all over Europe and cars made outside the UK are often using UK made parts. BMWs made in Germany will be using UK assembled engines, Fords made in Spain will have engines from Dagenham, seats from somewhere else, tyres from somewhere else etc.
It is an important part of the setup that parts, people and technology moves seamlessly between them all and any disruption, delays or added cost will cause complications.
One of the reasons a FTA would happen if we left.A car assembly plant in the UK will be using parts from all over Europe and cars made outside the UK are often using UK made parts. BMWs made in Germany will be using UK assembled engines, Fords made in Spain will have engines from Dagenham, seats from somewhere else, tyres from somewhere else etc.
It is an important part of the setup that parts, people and technology moves seamlessly between them all and any disruption, delays or added cost will cause complications.
I'm genuinely not sure which way I will vote, months ago I was dead set on leave, now I could go either way. There are many strong arguments for and against both courses of action and neither outcome is what I would like to see. It's worrying that such an important decision is going to be made by a public with very little understanding of the true facts and issues, mostly just influenced by either of the badly run, misleading and negative campaigns.
My prediction is that it will go 60/40 to remain.
My prediction is that it will go 60/40 to remain.
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