Rolls Royce cars to be made in German factory due to brexit?
Discussion
To put my 2 pence into the ring for a ridicule or support.
I have just looked at the RR website and 2016 as it's a full year was terrific results "second highest year of sales".
Well done everyone involved congratulations proud of you all.
So RR made 4011 cars in total.
Of which 813 remained in the EU which includes us here in the UK.
Roughly only 20% remain or 80% are exported to countries outside the EU.
So why then all the fuss?
With this IPR we are on about at least 80% are exported and once we leave the EU then this figure will no doubt increase as the EU becomes export territory leaving only the cars that remain in the UK liable for the duties.
I would have thought once we leave we can then renegotiate our trade deals with all other countries and potentially sell many more RR's cars than if we remained so the 80% market will increase once it becomes within our control?
Of course this is with my rose tinted glasses on but that's my thoughts on it?
I have just looked at the RR website and 2016 as it's a full year was terrific results "second highest year of sales".
Well done everyone involved congratulations proud of you all.
So RR made 4011 cars in total.
Of which 813 remained in the EU which includes us here in the UK.
Roughly only 20% remain or 80% are exported to countries outside the EU.
So why then all the fuss?
With this IPR we are on about at least 80% are exported and once we leave the EU then this figure will no doubt increase as the EU becomes export territory leaving only the cars that remain in the UK liable for the duties.
I would have thought once we leave we can then renegotiate our trade deals with all other countries and potentially sell many more RR's cars than if we remained so the 80% market will increase once it becomes within our control?
Of course this is with my rose tinted glasses on but that's my thoughts on it?
Smiler. said:
So you give a bit of a s
t then.
And it's not my violin.
I give enough of a st then.And it's not my violin.
t to debate the subject. I just don't have any feelings one way or the other on the EU. My Remain vote was pragmatic and based on what I thought best for the country. I'll be more than delighted to be proven wrong.I think the point of all this 'yippering' (New word right there) is being missed.
The real craftmanship, essence and magic of RR is performed in the Goodwood works in the Sussex countryside, and is something peculiarly British that can not be recreated anywhere else. Same as things such as Saville Row, all the way through to village green cricket.
It's something we have always been good at and the embodiment of Britishness, it can not be simply be lifted and shifted. It would be a foolish move to erase that facet of which the RR brand stands for.
The real craftmanship, essence and magic of RR is performed in the Goodwood works in the Sussex countryside, and is something peculiarly British that can not be recreated anywhere else. Same as things such as Saville Row, all the way through to village green cricket.
It's something we have always been good at and the embodiment of Britishness, it can not be simply be lifted and shifted. It would be a foolish move to erase that facet of which the RR brand stands for.
Mrr T said:
Sway said:
Yes. However, this is easily and cheaply done automatically - driven by the MRP system.
As an example, it's costing less than £40k for the GTS module configuration and implementation at my current client as part of a rollout of SAP to replace an archaic instance of Oracle. It's less than £15k for a standalone system that'll need a couple of administrators to manage for a company the size of R-R.
If the end use (in this case the finished car) is to be sold internally, then you cannot claim the relief. Currently, that means anything sold within the EU, made of components that originate outside the EU.
For those instances, then my second point about price elasticity with the R-R product applies...
A few more questions because I tend to find the devil is it the detailAs an example, it's costing less than £40k for the GTS module configuration and implementation at my current client as part of a rollout of SAP to replace an archaic instance of Oracle. It's less than £15k for a standalone system that'll need a couple of administrators to manage for a company the size of R-R.
If the end use (in this case the finished car) is to be sold internally, then you cannot claim the relief. Currently, that means anything sold within the EU, made of components that originate outside the EU.
For those instances, then my second point about price elasticity with the R-R product applies...
1. You say you can only use the system if you are exporting the part again. So post brexit with no deal how about if you do not know if you will export or not. As an example a car assembler will import gearboxes. When the supplier is shipping the assembler may not know if they will go into a UK sold car or a EU sold car (an export).
2. The system is an HMRC system do you know:
a) Is it available in Calais/Dover and if not is it easy to install.
b) How long does it take to process? Lorries maybe arriving at the channel within hours of leaving the EU exporter.
c) What’s the capacity of the system if we have a hard border at the channel?
b) I assume HMRC have to check the documentation for every package crossing into the UK from the EU.
d) How would this work with mixed loads in a lorry some may be covered by the system others may not?
1) No one is producing to spec - every car will have an order associated with it. That customer demand drives MRP/ERP demand and the system flows through. At the point of call off, the end customer will be known, and so it'll be already pegged as being for onward export. Especially for highly customised cars such as R-R or MINI.
2) The system is not an HMRC system. It is a verified system that communicates with HMRC's. Much like Oracle, Sage or SAP are approved systems, meaning that everyone trusts the backend reported etc. - otherwise absolutely everything would be subject to audit, which isn't the case.
A) HMRC will have their system at all points of entry. The reports sent through from the verified system at the company will go through to the central HMRC system and be called off from there.
B) The declarations and reports are created at the point of order with the supplier, driven by MRP demand. So the data is available prior to manufacture in a lot of cases, let alone point of shipment.
C) Difficult to answer. Very few points of entry solely deal with EU traffic, and it's not the origin of the shipment that matters, but the Country of Origin of the item originally. So even the border points that solely deal with EU shipment origins, will be checking that items that have originated outside the EU have the appropriate customs traceability and confirmation that tariffs have been paid and traceability maintained.
This process permits advance clearing of customs, including any necessary payment. So in reality a decent uptake (and there are many benefits of doing so) would actually reduce the workload at the port. Effectively reducing it to box ticking of a decent sample for tariff payment, and a much smaller sample having a level of inspection.
D) (or second b)!) As already noted, to an extent they already need to check everything. In reality, much like how HMRC decide to conduct audits of accounts, they use algorithms to determine the risk level and Base their level of inspection/checking based upon that. Broadly speaking, for any 'normal' non dodgy company, then life is really bloody easy. They can print (or load) in advance the expected consignments that day, and all they need to do is check that the paperwork attached to the consignment matches the paperwork they've had submitted previously.
E) - See D. The paperwork will have already shown the split of goods claiming IPR, and those that aren't, and as long as everything matches up, then no issue, no extra work.
Lastly, one of the key elements in any supply/manufacturing chain such as those we're talking about is traceability. MRP manages this. It's not just critical for things like IPR, but product safety, SQA sampling, Certificates of Conformity, etc. If anything changes at a date after the import, then the system recognises the change and a revised report/payment/refund is processed automatically.
A properly configured manufacturing business, importing and exporting across any borders, should have absolutely no problems from these perspectives. Equally, HMRC should have limited challenges in the creation of so called 'hard borders', although some infrastructure may be required in certain locations. Fortunately, as a historically international trading nation that happens to be an island, there are hundreds of available entry points (and exit points from the EU).
War and peace, but hopefully a fairly comprehensive answer to the questions.
Rude-boy said:
///ajd said:
Smiler. said:
Well you obviously can. Don't you ever get bored of it?
It seems not yet. Any comment on the Rolls story, or just attacking the messenger today?
It would seem that Project Fear on behalf of the "no, no, no you should not have voted that way' party is not only in full swing but is also having an effect.
The doubt and uncertainly that BMW is talking about is as i direct result of the self defeating attitude of the Remoaners. The less effort that they put into trying to make a success of Brexit and the more strife and struggle they can cause, together with their constant stream of looking on the darkest possible side and shouting "We're all doomed I tell thee" the more they will get their wish of the worst possible Brexit.
So to be honest it would appear that the Remoaners will get their way - beggaring the Country to ensure that they are proven 'right'.
As someone who voted to Remain myself i am utterly disgusted in the behaviour of the Remoaners and their myopic attitudes. There will be Brexit, stop fooling yourselves into thinking that you can reverse the vote by trying to make the situation as bad as it possibly can be.
Cretins.
Kermit power said:
Rude-boy said:
///ajd said:
Smiler. said:
Well you obviously can. Don't you ever get bored of it?
It seems not yet. Any comment on the Rolls story, or just attacking the messenger today?
It would seem that Project Fear on behalf of the "no, no, no you should not have voted that way' party is not only in full swing but is also having an effect.
The doubt and uncertainly that BMW is talking about is as i direct result of the self defeating attitude of the Remoaners. The less effort that they put into trying to make a success of Brexit and the more strife and struggle they can cause, together with their constant stream of looking on the darkest possible side and shouting "We're all doomed I tell thee" the more they will get their wish of the worst possible Brexit.
So to be honest it would appear that the Remoaners will get their way - beggaring the Country to ensure that they are proven 'right'.
As someone who voted to Remain myself i am utterly disgusted in the behaviour of the Remoaners and their myopic attitudes. There will be Brexit, stop fooling yourselves into thinking that you can reverse the vote by trying to make the situation as bad as it possibly can be.
Cretins.
The key from my perspective is sentiment. Strong economies can fail through a lack of it, weak economies can boom because of it.
If the current feeling amongst a decent proportion of our populace is that their world is becoming s
t, then to a large degree that becomes self fulfilling.At the moment, the key action is to reinforce a level of positivity, that regardless of the end result of the 'deal', we have the capability to not only adapt but thrive in the longer term. We've done it before in the face of frankly far greater risks, and I'm sure we can do it again.
RR sell relatively few cars in the EU, if you remove the UK from the figures.
They sell a LOT of their cars in the USA, Far, and Middle East.
If the post-Brexit UK establishes free trade agreements with the above, which is the plan, there's no chance RR will move manufacturing to Germany.
They'd be more likely to move production of regular BMWs to the UK.
They sell a LOT of their cars in the USA, Far, and Middle East.
If the post-Brexit UK establishes free trade agreements with the above, which is the plan, there's no chance RR will move manufacturing to Germany.
They'd be more likely to move production of regular BMWs to the UK.
B210bandit said:
I'm not sure if a BMW businessman gives two hoots about England's identity crisis. He cares more about the euros and cents.
Indeed. However, they care about those euros and cents in two directions - income as well as cost.Cost may go up (although I've given some lengthy explanations why that's very unlikely to be much of an issue), however if any changes mean that sales fall (such as brand perception of a shift to Germany) then that's very much in the equation too...
Getragdogleg said:
Lets not forget that the unpreparedness for what the single market actually meant to the average Brit in the 70s is most of the reason why we don't have Rover, Leyland, Jaguar, Rolls Royce and many others as British companies anymore.
We made st cars and rested on our laurels, then when the single market kicked in the flood gates opened to the Germans and the French to sell us a superior product.
Most countries were making sWe made s
t cars and rested on our laurels, then when the single market kicked in the flood gates opened to the Germans and the French to sell us a superior product.t cars in the 70s, Jap cars made out of steel no thicker than a Rizla, SL Mercs rusting even though they were the price of a small house then, Italian cars that would rust overnight and would be hit and miss if all the lights would come on when darkness fell and not to mention the worse car I ever owned a Citroen Pallas.If you said management and the unions that would be nearer the truth why there's hardly no 100% British cars anymore and then Mrs Thatcher finally killing it off with no more help, something that wouldn't happen in other countries.
Uncle John said:
I think the point of all this 'yippering' (New word right there) is being missed.
The real craftmanship, essence and magic of RR is performed in the Goodwood works in the Sussex countryside, and is something peculiarly British that can not be recreated anywhere else. Same as things such as Saville Row, all the way through to village green cricket.
It's something we have always been good at and the embodiment of Britishness, it can not be simply be lifted and shifted. It would be a foolish move to erase that facet of which the RR brand stands for.
They were mama de in CreweThe real craftmanship, essence and magic of RR is performed in the Goodwood works in the Sussex countryside, and is something peculiarly British that can not be recreated anywhere else. Same as things such as Saville Row, all the way through to village green cricket.
It's something we have always been good at and the embodiment of Britishness, it can not be simply be lifted and shifted. It would be a foolish move to erase that facet of which the RR brand stands for.
SpeckledJim said:
RR sell relatively few cars in the EU, if you remove the UK from the figures.
They sell a LOT of their cars in the USA, Far, and Middle East.
If the post-Brexit UK establishes free trade agreements with the above, which is the plan, there's no chance RR will move manufacturing to Germany.
They'd be more likely to move production of regular BMWs to the UK.
How are we (EU) selling to those countries now, I don't remember trade deals with them.They sell a LOT of their cars in the USA, Far, and Middle East.
If the post-Brexit UK establishes free trade agreements with the above, which is the plan, there's no chance RR will move manufacturing to Germany.
They'd be more likely to move production of regular BMWs to the UK.
All the Remoaners going on about tariffs etc, well we will be selling the same cars, to the same people, under the same none deals as now.
Leroy902 said:
glazbagun said:
They might make components there, but I can't see RR, Bentley or Aston Martin ever being built in Germany. It would be like making Patek Phillipe in England.
They're all designed/manufactured etc in Germany. It's assembled in the UK 
Uncle John said:
I think the point of all this 'yippering' (New word right there) is being missed.
The real craftmanship, essence and magic of RR is performed in the Goodwood works in the Sussex countryside, and is something peculiarly British that can not be recreated anywhere else. Same as things such as Saville Row, all the way through to village green cricket.
It's something we have always been good at and the embodiment of Britishness, it can not be simply be lifted and shifted. It would be a foolish move to erase that facet of which the RR brand stands for.
Of course it can be shifted!! Some Arab/Chinese billionaire won't give a jot where his RR is made. The real craftmanship, essence and magic of RR is performed in the Goodwood works in the Sussex countryside, and is something peculiarly British that can not be recreated anywhere else. Same as things such as Saville Row, all the way through to village green cricket.
It's something we have always been good at and the embodiment of Britishness, it can not be simply be lifted and shifted. It would be a foolish move to erase that facet of which the RR brand stands for.
Kermit power said:
B'stard Child said:
///ajd said:
He obviously knows sweet FA about real supply chain logistics. He need to speak to some of our real JIT, MRP and Kanban experts here on PH.....
You really are such a muppet.......k off with your insulting comments!
Murph7355 said:
kurt535 said:
Of course it can be shifted!! Some Arab/Chinese billionaire won't give a jot where his RR is made.
I think you might be surprised.Murph7355 said:
kurt535 said:
Of course it can be shifted!! Some Arab/Chinese billionaire won't give a jot where his RR is made.
I think you might be surprised.Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff