So what now for the Labour party?

[Smollet]

[MX6]

Labour obviously need a leader who can unite the hard left and moderate sides of the party again, I'm not sure there is such a figure waiting in the wings though. Once Brexit is done and the Conservative suffer the inevitable fall out from it, as the main opposition party Labour will bounce back somewhat.

[ATG]

greygoose said:

LetsTryAgain said:

4 years...!?
Blair and at least half of his cabinet are self confessed Marxists.

So that's 20+ minimum, never mind 4. And that's just when they got into power.

Edited by LetsTryAgain on Friday 13th December 07:05

Not sure many think of Blair as a Marxist.....

Margret Thatcher, for example, didn't and she still had a few marbles at the time.

[stongle]

Nickgnome said:

Something on which we agree at last. Must be Christmas or something.

I was listening to a labour guy, unfortunately didn’t catch his name, but he was trying to excuse the result and would not accept that Corbyn, McDonald and momentum were really the problem.

There is clearly an element of the Labour Party which is still centrist and for the good of the nation we hope they can win out.

For the record I’ve only voted labour once or twice. 1997 and possibly the subsequent one. Blair screwed up when he got all Catholic religious and obviously the Iraq war.

He didn’t appreciate how dodgy some businesses and the banks were either, which did for him in relation to PFI and the financial crash.

I was heavily involved in PFI contracts and the principle was sound. The contract execution as poor though.

Well, I'm sure there a few things we would actually agree upon in the real world. Standard deviation suggests it.

Democratising the Labour party, has pushed it far, far too left. Much to the aghast of the parliamentary party. The conservatives, also widened membership and leadership voting - but elected a one nation Tory. There are stty elements in the Cons, but they seem to be largely pragmatic and conformist as a main.

I think if Momentun and Unions continue to push hard left, the parliamentary party may well split off. I also think, if Boris pulls off his one nation trick and rewards the new blue belt with better investment, infrastructure and education - you don't need such radical policies.

Let's be honest, a lot of those leave votes in the North, Midlands and East are due to lack of investment and opportunity. When you have little opportunity it is easier to feel threatened. Upping invest in these regions, helps a BREXIT deal with reasonable levels of movement (close to freedom of) - if all goes to plan, the hard left could be redundant; for many years. Especially as Boris may have 5 years and a compliant EU....

I think we might have a situation, where the government and opposition can differ on quality of policies rather than extremes of.... so bigbn fag paper separation...

[BOR]

P5BNij said:

230TE said:

BOR said:

I hope Johnson goes Full Tory on them, as he is quite entitled to do.

Don't come cryng to the opposition to save you from what you yourselves voted for.

You're the third person I've seen on here wishing suffering on the people who voted Conservative. Is it an official message that Seumas has told you all to get out onto social media? Or just proof that the "caring, compassionate" Left actually isn't very nice?

He'll go quiet for an hour or two, ignore your post, then come back with another little slice of snidiness.

First of all, staggering as it may seem, I sometimes have other, more important things to do.

Second, why do you want to deny people who voluntairily voted Conservative, to be denied the full fat impact of what they were promised and what they, again, voluntarily voted for ?

[ATG]

stongle said:

biggbn said:

otolith said:

I don't think anyone is suggesting, though, that we need a moderate Labour Party which will invade a middle Eastern country. It's about domestic policy.

I just don't see a moderate centrist party as an alternative, it's just 'another' main party, two flavours of vanilla separated by a cigarette paper

But the country repeatedly rejects extreme parties. We live in a society that doesn't actually require revolution, or massive social upheaval- just better wealth redistribution. It seems most of the electorate got that, but some on the far left (Momentum) and right (arguably sections of BREXIT); only see their versions of the world. Which they try to project on everyone else. We don't need extreme opposition parties, just ones whom offer practical and deliverable policies - something Labour missed by a universe.

This with bells, whistles and knobs on.

[P5BNij]

Nickgnome said:

P5BNij said:

At last some sense from you Nick, I wish more of your posts were like this. Sounds like the Labour guy you mention might've been Richard Burgon.

I think it was. There was a female labour politician on later, she was taking the same line. Ken Clarke and David Blunkett were on as well. I didn’t catch much of it but they seem to put her in her place.

Watching Burgon last night the bile within him was almost visible, his utter denial of Corbyn's part in Labour's trouncing was laughable.

[biggbn]

Robertj21a said:

biggbn said:

otolith said:

I don't think anyone is suggesting, though, that we need a moderate Labour Party which will invade a middle Eastern country. It's about domestic policy.

I just don't see a moderate centrist party as an alternative, it's just 'another' main party, two flavours of vanilla separated by a cigarette paper

So you think a further left party will get enough votes to make a significant impact ?

Where have I said further left? Anywhere? I do believe the leadership of corbyn and the stance on brexit was the leading problem this time round. I had little problems with much of the ideology, but I am further left by nature than many at this point in my life.

[anonymous-user]

P5BNij said:

Watching Burgon last night the bile within him was almost visible, his utter denial of Corbyn's part in Labour's trouncing was laughable.

It was bizarre to watch. He's vurry wurryd. Yeah we get it. I think he might actually believe what he says. He's completely deluded.

[Robertj21a]

ATG said:

stongle said:

biggbn said:

otolith said:

I don't think anyone is suggesting, though, that we need a moderate Labour Party which will invade a middle Eastern country. It's about domestic policy.

I just don't see a moderate centrist party as an alternative, it's just 'another' main party, two flavours of vanilla separated by a cigarette paper

But the country repeatedly rejects extreme parties. We live in a society that doesn't actually require revolution, or massive social upheaval- just better wealth redistribution. It seems most of the electorate got that, but some on the far left (Momentum) and right (arguably sections of BREXIT); only see their versions of the world. Which they try to project on everyone else. We don't need extreme opposition parties, just ones whom offer practical and deliverable policies - something Labour missed by a universe.

This with bells, whistles and knobs on.

+1. Good, sensible, post

[biggbn]

fblm said:

P5BNij said:

Watching Burgon last night the bile within him was almost visible, his utter denial of Corbyn's part in Labour's trouncing was laughable.

It was bizarre to watch. He's vurry wurryd. Yeah we get it. I think he might actually believe what he says. He's completely deluded.

Anybody in the party who could not see this coming and/or cannot see the problem retrospectively is deluded, agreed. I genuinely had a feeling last time that the election v May's Tories would be close, thought we might just nip it. But this time it was obvious labour were getting a hiding. I had left the party due to the leadership issues and had no crystal ball, it was just, surely, obvious, even against the liar Johnson

[T6 vanman]

BOR said:

First of all, staggering as it may seem, I sometimes have other, more important things to do.

Second, why do you want to deny people who voluntairily voted Conservative, to be denied the full fat impact of what they were promised and what they, again, voluntarily voted for ?

So you mean unemployment down to historic levels, and comparing to near EU countries (France) less that half their figures
Historic employment rates
Seismic reduction in poverty in pensioners
Unparalleled historic spending on healthcare & the NHS
Reduction in the catastrophic economically damaging overspend within government departments (Deficit) by record tax intake
Reduction between inequity between the rich and poor
Lifting millions out of poverty through increasing tax thresholds
Improving school results,
Historic levels of Doctors & Nurses

Sign me up …….Oh sorry ..was that what I did yesterday with my X
(Factory worker & Family man)

[crofty1984]

Listening to the world at one today, whoever they had on for labour after Blunkett (who came across very well) was EXACTLY the type of person Labour need to kick out. "It's not our fault, it's the nasty Tories, whine whine whine!"

[vikingaero]

When I grew up, the losing parties would reconvene and look at how to move forward.

2019 and it's a load of bhes blaming and moaning on social media.

[jakesmith]

Nickgnome said:

I was heavily involved in PFI contracts and the principle was sound. The contract execution as poor though.

Only for the government from what I can gather

[jakesmith]

BOR said:

P5BNij said:

230TE said:

BOR said:

I hope Johnson goes Full Tory on them, as he is quite entitled to do.

Don't come cryng to the opposition to save you from what you yourselves voted for.

You're the third person I've seen on here wishing suffering on the people who voted Conservative. Is it an official message that Seumas has told you all to get out onto social media? Or just proof that the "caring, compassionate" Left actually isn't very nice?

He'll go quiet for an hour or two, ignore your post, then come back with another little slice of snidiness.

First of all, staggering as it may seem, I sometimes have other, more important things to do.

Second, why do you want to deny people who voluntairily voted Conservative, to be denied the full fat impact of what they were promised and what they, again, voluntarily voted for ?

It will be a small price to pay to avoid the full fat impact of a Corbyn lead government. The country would have been run into the ground, you may not agree but luckily 4 million more people see it my way than yours

Edited by jakesmith on Friday 13th December 18:44

[swamp]

The first priority for Labour should be to rid the party of anti-semitism. Comply fully with the Equality and Human Rights Commission's investigation, and permanently expel any members or affiliates, up to and including JC, who are implicated.

It will be brutal, and they may have to throw some people under the bus, but Labour will not win the next election until they are completely clean on this issue.

[tali1]

swamp said:

The first priority for Labour should be to rid the party of anti-semitism. Comply fully with the Equality and Human Rights Commission's investigation, and permanently expel any members or affiliates, up to and including JC, who are implicated.

It will be brutal, and they may have to throw some people under the bus, but Labour will not win the next election until they are completely clean on this issue.

Well,given the Tory majority -it is highly unlikely Labour will win the next election -even if they Torify themselves to the max.

https://static.wixstatic.com/media/b8b167_a4bf868b...

Edited by tali1 on Friday 13th December 19:22

[Robertj21a]

tali1 said:

Well,given the Tory majority -it is highly unlikely Labour will win the next election -even if they Torify themselves to the max.

https://static.wixstatic.com/media/b8b167_a4bf868b...

Edited by tali1 on Friday 13th December 19:22

Boris should have at least 10 years to get things done.

[Halb]

GMT13 said:

Hilariously I think they’ll swing even further left and away from electability. The PLP don’t decide on the leader and those in control are already defending the policies and blaming everything on brexit. I’m foreseeing a scenario in 6 months where Corbs is still leader after unanimous support from momentum ‘forces’ him to reconsider his resignation

they decide on the shortlist?


Jezza will go eventually, he knows the jig is up