Bianca Williams stop accusing race motivated.
Discussion
b
hstewie said:
hstewie said:voyds9 said:
bhstewie said:
hstewie said:voyds9 said:
wjb said:
I wonder how some of you guys would react if you'd been stopped, 10, 20, 30, 40 or 50 times for no reason other than being black in a public place....
Would you all remain civilised, polite and calm?
Genuine question.
I'd move to SowetoWould you all remain civilised, polite and calm?
Genuine question.
jsc15 said:
If only there was a way to explain why black people are so unjustly stopped/arrested/prosecuted?
I've previously attempted to highlight on PH that the obvious (really obvious) reason black men are stopped by police slightly more is that they are *multiple* times times more likely to be engaged in serious criminality, but I just get the standard "f-in racist pr**k" type retorts.
So, here is another attempt.....namely the wikipedia page on "Race and crime in the United Kingdom" located at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime_in_th...
I know some of it looks dated, but let's be honest, things haven't improved
Here's the full "History" section from that page...
In 2003 Lee Jasper, a race advisor to the London mayor, said drugs and gun crime were the "biggest threat to the black community since its arrival here".[4]
In 2007, after a series of murders committed by black people, prime minister Tony Blair attributed them to a distinctive black culture: "the black community (...) need to be mobilised in denunciation of this gang culture that is killing innocent young black kids. But we won't stop this by pretending it isn't young black kids doing it."[5] Some from the black community criticised his remarks.[6]
Gang involvement is said to be a "continuing problem" in the community.[7] African-Caribbean people are over represented in violent crimes.[8]
Some commentators have argued that the issue of black people and crime is hidden away or downplayed, and that the fear of accusations of racism may have contributed to this.[9][10]
The Metropolitan Police Service is one of the few police forces which has collected statistics on gang rape. Filmmaker Sorious Samura compiled 29 such incidents involving young people from January 2006 to March 2009, and found that, of 92 people convicted, 66 were black or mixed race. Samura said he found it "impossible to ignore the fact that such a high proportion were committed by black and mixed-race young men"
....and as a copy'n'paste from the "Race and crime in London" section (remember this is just the "B" of "BAME")
Figures from the Office for National Statistics showed that in 2007 an estimated 10.6 percent of London's population of 7,556,900 were black.[24] Evidence shows that the black population in London boroughs increases with the level of deprivation, and that the level of crime also increases with deprivation, such that "It is clear that ethnicity, deprivation, victimisation and offending are closely and intricately inter-related".[25]
In June 2010, through a Freedom of Information Act request, The Sunday Telegraph obtained statistics on accusations of crime broken down by race from the Metropolitan Police Service.[n 2] The figures showed that the majority of males who were accused of violent crimes in 2009–2010 were black. Of the recorded 18,091 such accusations against males, 54 percent accused of street crimes were black; for robbery, 58 percent; and for gun crimes, 67 percent.[26] Robbery, drug use, and gang violence have been associated with black people since the 1960s.[27] In the 1980s and 1990s, the police associated robbery with black people. In 1995, the Metropolitan Police commissioner Paul Condon said that the majority of robberies in London were committed by black people.[28]
Street crimes include muggings, assault with intent to rob, and snatching property. Black males accounted for 29 percent of the male victims of gun crime and 24 percent of the male victims of knife crime.[26] Of sex offences, black men made up 32 per cent of male suspects. Similar statistics were recorded for females. Of knife crime, 45 percent of suspected female perpetrators were black; for gun crime, 58 percent; and of robberies, 52 percent.[29]
Operation Trident was set up in March 1998 by the Metropolitan Police to investigate gun crime in London's black community after black-on-black shootings in Lambeth and Brent.[30]
Between April 2005 and January 2006, figures from the Metropolitan Police Service showed that black people accounted for 46 percent of car-crime arrests generated by automatic number plate recognition cameras.
Needs clarifying - how many car crime arrests were actually generated by ANPR? Could be 20, 200 or 2000. The rest of the figures are pretty worthless and worth ignoring. Some relate to ethnicity of those accused of crime - not convictedI've previously attempted to highlight on PH that the obvious (really obvious) reason black men are stopped by police slightly more is that they are *multiple* times times more likely to be engaged in serious criminality, but I just get the standard "f-in racist pr**k" type retorts.
So, here is another attempt.....namely the wikipedia page on "Race and crime in the United Kingdom" located at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime_in_th...
I know some of it looks dated, but let's be honest, things haven't improved
Here's the full "History" section from that page...
In 2003 Lee Jasper, a race advisor to the London mayor, said drugs and gun crime were the "biggest threat to the black community since its arrival here".[4]
In 2007, after a series of murders committed by black people, prime minister Tony Blair attributed them to a distinctive black culture: "the black community (...) need to be mobilised in denunciation of this gang culture that is killing innocent young black kids. But we won't stop this by pretending it isn't young black kids doing it."[5] Some from the black community criticised his remarks.[6]
Gang involvement is said to be a "continuing problem" in the community.[7] African-Caribbean people are over represented in violent crimes.[8]
Some commentators have argued that the issue of black people and crime is hidden away or downplayed, and that the fear of accusations of racism may have contributed to this.[9][10]
The Metropolitan Police Service is one of the few police forces which has collected statistics on gang rape. Filmmaker Sorious Samura compiled 29 such incidents involving young people from January 2006 to March 2009, and found that, of 92 people convicted, 66 were black or mixed race. Samura said he found it "impossible to ignore the fact that such a high proportion were committed by black and mixed-race young men"
....and as a copy'n'paste from the "Race and crime in London" section (remember this is just the "B" of "BAME")
Figures from the Office for National Statistics showed that in 2007 an estimated 10.6 percent of London's population of 7,556,900 were black.[24] Evidence shows that the black population in London boroughs increases with the level of deprivation, and that the level of crime also increases with deprivation, such that "It is clear that ethnicity, deprivation, victimisation and offending are closely and intricately inter-related".[25]
In June 2010, through a Freedom of Information Act request, The Sunday Telegraph obtained statistics on accusations of crime broken down by race from the Metropolitan Police Service.[n 2] The figures showed that the majority of males who were accused of violent crimes in 2009–2010 were black. Of the recorded 18,091 such accusations against males, 54 percent accused of street crimes were black; for robbery, 58 percent; and for gun crimes, 67 percent.[26] Robbery, drug use, and gang violence have been associated with black people since the 1960s.[27] In the 1980s and 1990s, the police associated robbery with black people. In 1995, the Metropolitan Police commissioner Paul Condon said that the majority of robberies in London were committed by black people.[28]
Street crimes include muggings, assault with intent to rob, and snatching property. Black males accounted for 29 percent of the male victims of gun crime and 24 percent of the male victims of knife crime.[26] Of sex offences, black men made up 32 per cent of male suspects. Similar statistics were recorded for females. Of knife crime, 45 percent of suspected female perpetrators were black; for gun crime, 58 percent; and of robberies, 52 percent.[29]
Operation Trident was set up in March 1998 by the Metropolitan Police to investigate gun crime in London's black community after black-on-black shootings in Lambeth and Brent.[30]
Between April 2005 and January 2006, figures from the Metropolitan Police Service showed that black people accounted for 46 percent of car-crime arrests generated by automatic number plate recognition cameras.
Edited by Bigends on Monday 6th July 19:03
Regardless of the situation leading up to the stop, you would think the officers involved would have been slightly more culturally aware and handled the situation with a bit more nous once they realised there were kids in the car and the inhabitants were not aggressive. Standing shouting with batons at the ready? Absolute joke. I would have felt very intimidated and would likely have ended up with a night in the cells at least. Attitudes like this are the epitome of agent provocateurs. But, as another poster said, this action by the police has been investigated by the police and the police have found the police did nothing wrong.
Edited by biggbn on Monday 6th July 18:58
This Miss Williams and her partner must be having a laugh. Failure to initially stop. Then says both “Were we stopped for being black? “ and something along the lines of “ nothing like this has happened to me before”.
Which one is it? It strikes me she or her partner have tried to be clever and not stopped then st the bed and now playing the race card. Her attitude is shocking and continues to be in the media.
I was once taught you catch more bees with honey than vinegar. How long till the “ gobby and barack room lawyers learn this?
Which one is it? It strikes me she or her partner have tried to be clever and not stopped then s
t the bed and now playing the race card. Her attitude is shocking and continues to be in the media. I was once taught you catch more bees with honey than vinegar. How long till the “ gobby and barack room lawyers learn this?
biggbn said:
Regardless of the situation leading up to the stop, you would think the officers involved would have been slightly more culturally aware and handled the situation with a bit more nous once they realised there were kids in the car. Standing shouting with batons at the ready? Absolute joke. I would have felt very intimidated and would likely have ended up with a night in the cells at least. Attitudes like this are the epitome of agent provocateurs.
I tend to agree with most of that.I appreciate that the Police do a difficult job and encounter and deal with unpleasant people.
I just wonder sometimes how the balance is struck between that and making "enemies" of decent people with the sort of policing that appears to have been used here?
biggbn said:
Regardless of the situation leading up to the stop, you would think the officers involved would have been slightly more culturally aware and handled the situation with a bit more nous once they realised there were kids in the car. Standing shouting with batons at the ready? Absolute joke. I would have felt very intimidated and would likely have ended up with a night in the cells at least. Attitudes like this are the epitome of agent provocateurs.
It cant be 'regardless of the situation'Those bobbies were tasked to patrol an area where violence is rife. A vehicle driving down the wrong side of the road makes off from them. That car could be stolen, it could contain people brandishing weapons, people concealing drugs etc.
Maybe they should give the window a tickle with a feather and ask if the occupants would mind awfully if they minded the police speaking with them.
Theres zero responsibility being taken by the morons who created this situation in the first place, easier to say they're a victim of racism than actually look at why they were even being dealt with in the first place.
DeWar said:
La Liga said:
One of the fundamental issues the police face is that black men commit a disproportionate (and grossly so for some crime types) amount of crime, so by default there are a disproportionate amount of interactions.
That's always going to create tensions regardless of anything else.
I'd be surprised in 2020 if there's overt racism like in the 'bad old days'.
I think the key is making sure there is training / awareness of subconscious bias and judgement. More subtle and not intentional prejudices.
Black men commit a disproportionate amount of recorded crime. That's always going to create tensions regardless of anything else.
I'd be surprised in 2020 if there's overt racism like in the 'bad old days'.
I think the key is making sure there is training / awareness of subconscious bias and judgement. More subtle and not intentional prejudices.
That may appear pedantic, and it may well be true that black people do commit more actual crime in some categories (not, I hasten to add, because they’re black, of course) but there is a vicious cycle here: black men are perceived to commit more crime therefore the police will seemingly legitimately stop and search them more. Because of that, they simply catch a higher proportion of black criminals than white criminals. How many people here have had a car nicked or a house burgled? How often were the perps caught?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44884113
This article suggests 9 out of 10 crimes go unsolved. I’m not sure referencing crime figures informs this debate very much.
With others crime types (like murder) it's unambiguous.
Mikebentley said:
This Miss Williams and her partner must be having a laugh. Failure to initially stop. Then says both “Were we stopped for being black? “ and something along the lines of “ nothing like this has happened to me before”.
Which one is it? It strikes me she or her partner have tried to be clever and not stopped then st the bed and now playing the race card. Her attitude is shocking and continues to be in the media.
I was once taught you catch more bees with honey than vinegar. How long till the “ gobby and barack room lawyers learn this?
Well one cop on Twitter has alluded to dealing with the driver for crap driving previously. Obviously this needs to be taken with a pinch of salt and cynicism but maybe theres just more to it than the colour of his bloles skin.Which one is it? It strikes me she or her partner have tried to be clever and not stopped then s
t the bed and now playing the race card. Her attitude is shocking and continues to be in the media. I was once taught you catch more bees with honey than vinegar. How long till the “ gobby and barack room lawyers learn this?
Let's hope the Met release the video, they wont though...
biggbn said:
Regardless of the situation leading up to the stop, you would think the officers involved would have been slightly more culturally aware and handled the situation with a bit more nous once they realised there were kids in the car. Standing shouting with batons at the ready? Absolute joke. I would have felt very intimidated and would likely have ended up with a night in the cells at least. Attitudes like this are the epitome of agent provocateurs.
We don't get to see all of the video, so can't tell how long the police were politely asking the driver to exit the vehicle before drawing batons/window hammers - obviously enough time for the passenger to get the phone out and start recording.If you look at the video, try to see how many of the police in the video have a baton drawn...I bet it won't be all of them as implied by the lady in question when interviewed on BBC Radio*
* I counted 1 baton for 5 police officers in the video, 1 window hammer, 1 male and 2 female PCs with nothing in their hands - but of course I only have access to what the lady chose to share rather than the whole video - which could back up her claims
Edited by mmm-five on Monday 6th July 19:12
Quite the vicious circle.
And then you get straight into what socio-economic issues prevail that cause BAMEs to be over represented in the justice system?
As ever, openness and accountability are what is needed to ensure police behaviour is at the right standard. Plus training for the police to help avoid unconscious bias (though I appreciate this might sweep away the benefit of gut feel/ nose for sniffing out bs)
One thing I would say is I wouldn't expect any copper to treat someone like scum, irrespective of the situation. They should apply the force they feel is necessarily, but should not lose the moral high ground.
I'd also say two dozen anecdotes by white blokes about being stopped at night, or when, ahem, pushing on or just driving like a bellend has zero to do with the topic under discussion
Anyone who thinks it's "all the same" really needs to have long think about the topic, and open their eyes/ears/mind a bit to what the BAME population is saying.
Which takes us full circle: if stops are based on reasoned judgement, that is available for review: if police behaviour is impeachable: if the convictions are based on evidence, then no-one will have grounds to complain that racism is a factor. And anyone who does can be rightly told to give it a rest.
But until then...
That may appear pedantic, and it may well be true that black people do commit more actual crime in some categories (not, I hasten to add, because they’re black, of course) but there is a vicious cycle here: black men are perceived to commit more crime therefore the police will seemingly legitimately stop and search them more. Because of that, they simply catch a higher proportion of black criminals than white criminals. How many people here have had a car nicked or a house burgled? How often were the perps caught?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44884113
This article suggests 9 out of 10 crimes go unsolved. I’m not sure referencing crime figures informs this debate very much.
And then you get straight into what socio-economic issues prevail that cause BAMEs to be over represented in the justice system?
As ever, openness and accountability are what is needed to ensure police behaviour is at the right standard. Plus training for the police to help avoid unconscious bias (though I appreciate this might sweep away the benefit of gut feel/ nose for sniffing out bs)
One thing I would say is I wouldn't expect any copper to treat someone like scum, irrespective of the situation. They should apply the force they feel is necessarily, but should not lose the moral high ground.
I'd also say two dozen anecdotes by white blokes about being stopped at night, or when, ahem, pushing on or just driving like a bellend has zero to do with the topic under discussion
Anyone who thinks it's "all the same" really needs to have long think about the topic, and open their eyes/ears/mind a bit to what the BAME population is saying.
Which takes us full circle: if stops are based on reasoned judgement, that is available for review: if police behaviour is impeachable: if the convictions are based on evidence, then no-one will have grounds to complain that racism is a factor. And anyone who does can be rightly told to give it a rest.
But until then...
DeWar said:
La Liga said:
One of the fundamental issues the police face is that black men commit a disproportionate (and grossly so for some crime types) amount of crime, so by default there are a disproportionate amount of interactions.
That's always going to create tensions regardless of anything else.
I'd be surprised in 2020 if there's overt racism like in the 'bad old days'.
I think the key is making sure there is training / awareness of subconscious bias and judgement. More subtle and not intentional prejudices.
Black men commit a disproportionate amount of recorded crime. That's always going to create tensions regardless of anything else.
I'd be surprised in 2020 if there's overt racism like in the 'bad old days'.
I think the key is making sure there is training / awareness of subconscious bias and judgement. More subtle and not intentional prejudices.
That may appear pedantic, and it may well be true that black people do commit more actual crime in some categories (not, I hasten to add, because they’re black, of course) but there is a vicious cycle here: black men are perceived to commit more crime therefore the police will seemingly legitimately stop and search them more. Because of that, they simply catch a higher proportion of black criminals than white criminals. How many people here have had a car nicked or a house burgled? How often were the perps caught?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44884113
This article suggests 9 out of 10 crimes go unsolved. I’m not sure referencing crime figures informs this debate very much.
La Liga said:
DeWar said:
La Liga said:
One of the fundamental issues the police face is that black men commit a disproportionate (and grossly so for some crime types) amount of crime, so by default there are a disproportionate amount of interactions.
That's always going to create tensions regardless of anything else.
I'd be surprised in 2020 if there's overt racism like in the 'bad old days'.
I think the key is making sure there is training / awareness of subconscious bias and judgement. More subtle and not intentional prejudices.
Black men commit a disproportionate amount of recorded crime. That's always going to create tensions regardless of anything else.
I'd be surprised in 2020 if there's overt racism like in the 'bad old days'.
I think the key is making sure there is training / awareness of subconscious bias and judgement. More subtle and not intentional prejudices.
That may appear pedantic, and it may well be true that black people do commit more actual crime in some categories (not, I hasten to add, because they’re black, of course) but there is a vicious cycle here: black men are perceived to commit more crime therefore the police will seemingly legitimately stop and search them more. Because of that, they simply catch a higher proportion of black criminals than white criminals. How many people here have had a car nicked or a house burgled? How often were the perps caught?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44884113
This article suggests 9 out of 10 crimes go unsolved. I’m not sure referencing crime figures informs this debate very much.
With others crime types (like murder) it's unambiguous.
wjb said:
Mort7 said:
wjb said:
I wonder how some of you guys would react if you'd been stopped, 10, 20, 30, 40 or 50 times for no reason other than being black in a public place....
Would you all remain civilised, polite and calm?
Genuine question.
Well, it's a long time ago now, but I reckon that I must have been stopped at least 30 times, probably more. I wasn't stopped for any reason other than it was in the early hours of the morning. I was stopped both on a motorbike and in a car. I regularly had to explain who I was, where I was going, where I'd been, open the boot of the car, asked for ID, etc. I was also stopped when walking to a 24 hour garage to buy a pasty and a can of Coke for lunch at three in the morning.Would you all remain civilised, polite and calm?
Genuine question.
Always remained civilised, polite and calm. Never considered it to be a case of victimisation. Always considered that I would rather be stopped than have the police not bothering with anyone. How else are they supposed to do their job?
On one occasion I was told that I'd only been pulled over because the two officers in the car were bored. I had a laugh with them about it and carried on my way.
As a matter of interest how do you know that you were pulled over for being black in a public place? Did they actually tell you that, or is it an assumption on your part?
For example, being called the n word doesn't help.
Being told to go home (not to my house) doesn't help either.
Luckily I don't think they can do that anymore, you know with body cameras and mobile phones etc.
Greendubber said:
biggbn said:
Regardless of the situation leading up to the stop, you would think the officers involved would have been slightly more culturally aware and handled the situation with a bit more nous once they realised there were kids in the car. Standing shouting with batons at the ready? Absolute joke. I would have felt very intimidated and would likely have ended up with a night in the cells at least. Attitudes like this are the epitome of agent provocateurs.
It cant be 'regardless of the situation'Those bobbies were tasked to patrol an area where violence is rife. A vehicle driving down the wrong side of the road makes off from them. That car could be stolen, it could contain people brandishing weapons, people concealing drugs etc.
Maybe they should give the window a tickle with a feather and ask if the occupants would mind awfully if they minded the police speaking with them.
Theres zero responsibility being taken by the morons who created this situation in the first place, easier to say they're a victim of racism than actually look at why they were even being dealt with in the first place.
Bigends said:
La Liga said:
DeWar said:
La Liga said:
One of the fundamental issues the police face is that black men commit a disproportionate (and grossly so for some crime types) amount of crime, so by default there are a disproportionate amount of interactions.
That's always going to create tensions regardless of anything else.
I'd be surprised in 2020 if there's overt racism like in the 'bad old days'.
I think the key is making sure there is training / awareness of subconscious bias and judgement. More subtle and not intentional prejudices.
Black men commit a disproportionate amount of recorded crime. That's always going to create tensions regardless of anything else.
I'd be surprised in 2020 if there's overt racism like in the 'bad old days'.
I think the key is making sure there is training / awareness of subconscious bias and judgement. More subtle and not intentional prejudices.
That may appear pedantic, and it may well be true that black people do commit more actual crime in some categories (not, I hasten to add, because they’re black, of course) but there is a vicious cycle here: black men are perceived to commit more crime therefore the police will seemingly legitimately stop and search them more. Because of that, they simply catch a higher proportion of black criminals than white criminals. How many people here have had a car nicked or a house burgled? How often were the perps caught?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44884113
This article suggests 9 out of 10 crimes go unsolved. I’m not sure referencing crime figures informs this debate very much.
With others crime types (like murder) it's unambiguous.
biggbn said:
Greendubber said:
biggbn said:
Regardless of the situation leading up to the stop, you would think the officers involved would have been slightly more culturally aware and handled the situation with a bit more nous once they realised there were kids in the car. Standing shouting with batons at the ready? Absolute joke. I would have felt very intimidated and would likely have ended up with a night in the cells at least. Attitudes like this are the epitome of agent provocateurs.
It cant be 'regardless of the situation'Those bobbies were tasked to patrol an area where violence is rife. A vehicle driving down the wrong side of the road makes off from them. That car could be stolen, it could contain people brandishing weapons, people concealing drugs etc.
Maybe they should give the window a tickle with a feather and ask if the occupants would mind awfully if they minded the police speaking with them.
Theres zero responsibility being taken by the morons who created this situation in the first place, easier to say they're a victim of racism than actually look at why they were even being dealt with in the first place.
biggbn said:
Greendubber said:
biggbn said:
Regardless of the situation leading up to the stop, you would think the officers involved would have been slightly more culturally aware and handled the situation with a bit more nous once they realised there were kids in the car. Standing shouting with batons at the ready? Absolute joke. I would have felt very intimidated and would likely have ended up with a night in the cells at least. Attitudes like this are the epitome of agent provocateurs.
It cant be 'regardless of the situation'Those bobbies were tasked to patrol an area where violence is rife. A vehicle driving down the wrong side of the road makes off from them. That car could be stolen, it could contain people brandishing weapons, people concealing drugs etc.
Maybe they should give the window a tickle with a feather and ask if the occupants would mind awfully if they minded the police speaking with them.
Theres zero responsibility being taken by the morons who created this situation in the first place, easier to say they're a victim of racism than actually look at why they were even being dealt with in the first place.
Greendubber said:
It cant be 'regardless of the situation'
Those bobbies were tasked to patrol an area where violence is rife. A vehicle driving down the wrong side of the road makes off from them. That car could be stolen, it could contain people brandishing weapons, people concealing drugs etc.
Maybe they should give the window a tickle with a feather and ask if the occupants would mind awfully if they minded the police speaking with them.
Theres zero responsibility being taken by the morons who created this situation in the first place, easier to say they're a victim of racism than actually look at why they were even being dealt with in the first place.
The part in bold sums up the whole sorry situation for me.Those bobbies were tasked to patrol an area where violence is rife. A vehicle driving down the wrong side of the road makes off from them. That car could be stolen, it could contain people brandishing weapons, people concealing drugs etc.
Maybe they should give the window a tickle with a feather and ask if the occupants would mind awfully if they minded the police speaking with them.
Theres zero responsibility being taken by the morons who created this situation in the first place, easier to say they're a victim of racism than actually look at why they were even being dealt with in the first place.
Bigends said:
biggbn said:
Greendubber said:
biggbn said:
Regardless of the situation leading up to the stop, you would think the officers involved would have been slightly more culturally aware and handled the situation with a bit more nous once they realised there were kids in the car. Standing shouting with batons at the ready? Absolute joke. I would have felt very intimidated and would likely have ended up with a night in the cells at least. Attitudes like this are the epitome of agent provocateurs.
It cant be 'regardless of the situation'Those bobbies were tasked to patrol an area where violence is rife. A vehicle driving down the wrong side of the road makes off from them. That car could be stolen, it could contain people brandishing weapons, people concealing drugs etc.
Maybe they should give the window a tickle with a feather and ask if the occupants would mind awfully if they minded the police speaking with them.
Theres zero responsibility being taken by the morons who created this situation in the first place, easier to say they're a victim of racism than actually look at why they were even being dealt with in the first place.
SeeFive said:
Plod on PH, what is the standard procedure when someone has tried to evade a stop? My gut feel is that after they tried to drive off, they would be asked to get out of the car when they were stopped next to prevent them driving off again. If they refused or protested, I guess they then would be physically removed from the car?
The woman’s complaint is about poor treatment after the fail to stop, and being removed fro the car and restrained. Personally, if that is the procedure I don’t see any reason for complaint whether there was a kid or great great great grandmother in the back. Failing to stop or driving off when asked not to is suspicious behaviour IMHO, and it all bets are off.
Her further compliant is about the negative impact of regularly driving a Mercedes, which I fully understand having driven my wife’s, but that has nothing to do with police.
There is no power to force a driver from their car if the person is not in custody. They would be asked to get out of the car, but if they refused then removal of keys is the next step. If they lock themselves in the vehicle and the vehicle is not shown as stolen, then you are into problem areas, but there are options. The woman’s complaint is about poor treatment after the fail to stop, and being removed fro the car and restrained. Personally, if that is the procedure I don’t see any reason for complaint whether there was a kid or great great great grandmother in the back. Failing to stop or driving off when asked not to is suspicious behaviour IMHO, and it all bets are off.
Her further compliant is about the negative impact of regularly driving a Mercedes, which I fully understand having driven my wife’s, but that has nothing to do with police.
What is often termed as the 'ways and means Act' is, in essence, thorough knowledge of the law. If these options weren't available, then there would be a need for powers which might be seen as oppressive. We had trouble with 'cruisers' in Brighton, who, apart from blocking roads and generally behaving stupidly, would turn their radios up to ear bleed level, generating a number of complaints. It was seen as cool and also a way to thwart the police. A PC of mine told his sergeant of a de-arrest - a perfectly legal procedure - of one of them. The driver had sat outside a cafe around 2100 and had his sound system turned up, giving rise to a number of complaints. The attending PC spoke to the driver, who failed to respond, he opened the car door and arrested him for failure to identify himself or produce his driver's licence and suspicion of various offences. He turned the sound system off, told the driver why he was arrested, and got another PC to drive the car back to the nick - prisoner's property. Once the car had been driven off, the prisoner was offered the chance to identify himself, which he did, and after checks, was de-arrested. He had to go to the nick to pick up his car, which can be a lengthy procedure.
A number of the patrons of the cafe came out to clap, thank the officer and call the driver names.
It gave rise to a complaint, in which the driver said he could not hear the PC because he had turned up his radio to a level where he couldn't hear anyone, even if they shouted, which the PC, rather obviously, didn't. The PC pointed out that he'd followed all proper procedures to the letter.
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