Train crash in Scotland
Discussion
sim72 said:
I saw the photo from the tracks earlier, taken in front of what you are labelling coach 2 and I couldn't really make out what the other two coaches had landed on top of. It look too shallow/skinny to be a coach I thought. But that overhead shot shows it is a coach. Hope there weren't too many in that coach!valiant said:
The fact that the two most important people who could advance this investigation are dead should hopefully quell your appetite for immediate answers.
Your statement is knobish and disrespectful.
You may say that, but with all GSMR voice communications from driver to signaller and signaller to NR Control Your statement is knobish and disrespectful.
recorded it's easy for any Network Rail Incident Operative to access these calls in seconds and
ascertain the sequence of events that led to disaster.
Big-Bo-Beep said:
You may say that, but with all GSMR voice communications from driver to signaller and signaller to NR Control
recorded it's easy for any Network Rail Incident Operative to access these calls in seconds and
ascertain the sequence of events that led to disaster.
Maybe, but that comes in the investigation. Not when they are still securing the scene and looking for survivors. Even if that data is captured and secured now, they are (rightly) not going to rush to release any info.recorded it's easy for any Network Rail Incident Operative to access these calls in seconds and
ascertain the sequence of events that led to disaster.
essayer said:
I just can’t work out how the carriages have ended up like that, if the lead power car fell to its left. Did the trailing car continue with power? Or just momentum was enough to do that?
Power car falls to left, taking coach 1 with it, they break apart and coach 1 ends up where it isAt the same time, coach 1 drags the front of coach 2 to the left, and coach 3 jacknifes over it, leaving coach 3 upside down on top of coach 2.
Rear power car would have been powering until the connection was severed.
sim72 said:
P5BNij said:
With just a short six car formation the rear power car may not have been running.
Both PCs would have been powering as they effectively run in multiple via dedicated cabling through the trailers, regardless of the length of the formation.P5BNij said:
I've driven several with just the leading PC running.
Yes, obviously there are times when the trailing PC doesn't run, but in normal circumstances they do (and of course, the trailing PC would have been leading only a short time previously, so I doubt if it was powered off). Unless ScotRail regularly run their short-formed HSTs on one PC, and I've missed that completely?
Scot-Rail may well have a policy on whether trailing PCs should be left running or not, even so it's still at the drivers discretion. Slightly different scenario granted as the trains we haul aren't wired for through running, but when we run our infrastructure trains top 'n' tail we nearly always have the rear loco shut down until it's actually needed. Company policies do vary though.
Big-Bo-Beep said:
valiant said:
The fact that the two most important people who could advance this investigation are dead should hopefully quell your appetite for immediate answers.
Your statement is knobish and disrespectful.
You may say that, but with all GSMR voice communications from driver to signaller and signaller to NR Control Your statement is knobish and disrespectful.
recorded it's easy for any Network Rail Incident Operative to access these calls in seconds and
ascertain the sequence of events that led to disaster.
OTMR will be investigated as part of the investigation.
(On train monitoring /black box)
sim72 said:
P5BNij said:
I've driven several with just the leading PC running.
Yes, obviously there are times when the trailing PC doesn't run, but in normal circumstances they do (and of course, the trailing PC would have been leading only a short time previously, so I doubt if it was powered off). Unless ScotRail regularly run their short-formed HSTs on one PC, and I've missed that completely?
P5BNij said:
Scot-Rail may well have a policy on whether trailing PCs should be left running or not, even so it's still at the drivers discretion. Slightly different scenario granted as the trains we haul aren't wired for through running, but when we run our infrastructure trains top 'n' tail we nearly always have the rear loco shut down until it's actually needed. Company policies do vary though.
I thought the idea was to use the available power to benefit timings, particularly acceleration. So would have expected both power cars to be running.Otherwise why not just save a shedload of cash and have a driving trailer ??
Route plan of the area where the derailment occurred here....
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/315489/resp...
Scroll down to page 22 which will show where the train crossed over at Carmont to return north towards Stonehaven and Aberdeen. 'DM' is the northbound Down Main, 'UM' is the southbound Up Main.
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/315489/resp...
Scroll down to page 22 which will show where the train crossed over at Carmont to return north towards Stonehaven and Aberdeen. 'DM' is the northbound Down Main, 'UM' is the southbound Up Main.
loggo said:
P5BNij said:
Scot-Rail may well have a policy on whether trailing PCs should be left running or not, even so it's still at the drivers discretion. Slightly different scenario granted as the trains we haul aren't wired for through running, but when we run our infrastructure trains top 'n' tail we nearly always have the rear loco shut down until it's actually needed. Company policies do vary though.
I thought the idea was to use the available power to benefit timings, particularly acceleration. So would have expected both power cars to be running.Otherwise why not just save a shedload of cash and have a driving trailer ??
Stonehaven resident here and used to travel up and down this line frequently. Nothing more to add other than the confusion why a train would depart aberdeen around 6:30 when drain covers were popping out the street at around that time. Seems like a total waste of lives. Passed returning fire services whilst walking the dog with ATV buggy on trailer and with exhausted looking firemen. Felt bloody awful.
loggo said:
P5BNij said:
Scot-Rail may well have a policy on whether trailing PCs should be left running or not, even so it's still at the drivers discretion. Slightly different scenario granted as the trains we haul aren't wired for through running, but when we run our infrastructure trains top 'n' tail we nearly always have the rear loco shut down until it's actually needed. Company policies do vary though.
I thought the idea was to use the available power to benefit timings, particularly acceleration. So would have expected both power cars to be running.Otherwise why not just save a shedload of cash and have a driving trailer ??
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