Teacher held on suspicion of attempted murder
Discussion
Wacky Racer said:
I went to school in the fifties/sixties and it was quite common at school to get six strokes of the cane..(3 on each hand), which would draw wheals and blood for a trivial offence such as forgetting your homework, or handing it in ten minutes late....
Also, teachers used to throw wooden blackboard erasers at full pelt which would often hit you on the head if you were talking at the back of the class.....again drawing blood.....
This was normal, you thought nothing of it, and the parents would often say..."My son probably deserved it"
It never did me any harm.........
Board rubbers... Also, teachers used to throw wooden blackboard erasers at full pelt which would often hit you on the head if you were talking at the back of the class.....again drawing blood.....
This was normal, you thought nothing of it, and the parents would often say..."My son probably deserved it"
It never did me any harm.........
If you were looking at me boy you'd have seen it coming!Sorry I'm late back to the party but some of the "Well if they are bad send them to the head posts" 
If you'd done that in my school:
A)The kid would refuse.
B)If you tried to move them out of the class they'd kick off (throw chairs, grab anything, kick spit bite etc)
C)If you did get them out the room manually (usually this took 3 or 4 members of staff...who will have had to leave their classrooms), the rest of the class would trash the class room soon as you were out the door and most would vanish by the time you return.
D)The kid would be happy because they would be with their mates, thus encouraging them to do it again.
Now lets assume whatever you did upset the kid as they didn't get their way. They'll tell their parents (who have lots of spare time in the day...). The parents will turn up in your classroom and break your jaw for "Picking on my kid". At which point you go back home to France and refuse to press charges.
Genius plan that.
If you'd done that in my school:
A)The kid would refuse.
B)If you tried to move them out of the class they'd kick off (throw chairs, grab anything, kick spit bite etc)
C)If you did get them out the room manually (usually this took 3 or 4 members of staff...who will have had to leave their classrooms), the rest of the class would trash the class room soon as you were out the door and most would vanish by the time you return.
D)The kid would be happy because they would be with their mates, thus encouraging them to do it again.
Now lets assume whatever you did upset the kid as they didn't get their way. They'll tell their parents (who have lots of spare time in the day...). The parents will turn up in your classroom and break your jaw for "Picking on my kid". At which point you go back home to France and refuse to press charges.
Genius plan that.
Munter said:
Sorry I'm late back to the party but some of the "Well if they are bad send them to the head posts"
If you'd done that in my school:
A)The kid would refuse.
B)If you tried to move them out of the class they'd kick off (throw chairs, grab anything, kick spit bite etc)
C)If you did get them out the room manually (usually this took 3 or 4 members of staff...who will have had to leave their classrooms), the rest of the class would trash the class room soon as you were out the door and most would vanish by the time you return.
D)The kid would be happy because they would be with their mates, thus encouraging them to do it again.
Now lets assume whatever you did upset the kid as they didn't get their way. They'll tell their parents (who have lots of spare time in the day...). The parents will turn up in your classroom and break your jaw for "Picking on my kid". At which point you go back home to France and refuse to press charges.
Genius plan that.
That sounds just like my daughter's school - apart from the parents coming in, they generally can't be arsed. She's a year head so she carries a radio and is expected to respond instantly to cries for help. They have the Police in 3 or 4 times a day. The Police are ususally pretty rough with the kids they get hold of - the teachers are all distracted and looking elsewhere at that point. If you'd done that in my school:
A)The kid would refuse.
B)If you tried to move them out of the class they'd kick off (throw chairs, grab anything, kick spit bite etc)
C)If you did get them out the room manually (usually this took 3 or 4 members of staff...who will have had to leave their classrooms), the rest of the class would trash the class room soon as you were out the door and most would vanish by the time you return.
D)The kid would be happy because they would be with their mates, thus encouraging them to do it again.
Now lets assume whatever you did upset the kid as they didn't get their way. They'll tell their parents (who have lots of spare time in the day...). The parents will turn up in your classroom and break your jaw for "Picking on my kid". At which point you go back home to France and refuse to press charges.
Genius plan that.
She leaving this year and going to a school at completely the other end of the spectrum. She's actually quite nervous about the move as she have to do some serious teaching for the first time in her working life - up to now she's been a riot control officer.
Back in my day... so 12 years ago then - not that far back, I had a teacher punch me after id been told off for something I was innocent of. My response to his 'have you got anything to say for yourself' was 'I dont like being blamed for things I didnt do'.
It could've cost that teacher his job, as was very apparent when another member of staff came over for a quiet word about it. What actually happened though was that I let it go - I had been cocky to this teacher for a good long time and I can perfectly understand his action.
Doubt it would have happened like that today
It could've cost that teacher his job, as was very apparent when another member of staff came over for a quiet word about it. What actually happened though was that I let it go - I had been cocky to this teacher for a good long time and I can perfectly understand his action.
Doubt it would have happened like that today
You see, I think the problem is nowadays that unlike 30 odd years ago there is no real disipline in classrooms, largely because the only way to control certain pupils is the threat of a beating should they not behave.
Quite correctly we have realised that this is not an appropriate way to educate young people and have removed the frankly cruel concept of corporal punishment from todays educated system.
However you now have the problem that you are trying to educate a broad spectrum of children with a shotgun style education system and coupled with that you have now removed the total power that teachers used to have and left them with nothing to install discpline with.
Some children don't want to learn and nothing in the way the education system is being run now will make them. They are labled as troublemakers, as to a extent they are. Children like these not only refuse to take part in the learning proccess, they stop other more willing children taking part as well. The problem is now amplified as you have generations of familes who can't and won't take part in the usual proccess of learning whilst young and employing skills learnt when the are adults.
What can be done about this?
I personally think that we need a drastic overhaul of the educate system. If you can't force children to sit quietly and attentively in a classroom with the threat of violence if they refuse you have to engage with them and find out what will make them take part.
We have at the moment a largely "one size fits all" system in which all children are treated the same (I know there is some tailoring for kids, but the overall proccess is basically the same). If your father went through school not really learning anything and ended up as a labourer or similar it's highly likely that you're not going to give a s
t about quadratic equations either. Similarly the geeky, middle-class kid in class with a talent for physics doesn't really need to be doing woodwork classes.(I'm not saying this is always the case, there is are of course plenty of exceptions to the rules)
What needs to be done is for children to be watched at a very young level until they reach secondary school age in order to identify what that pupil is skilled in. A good teacher should be able to spot natural talent a mile off, so over the course of a 7 year period a pretty detailed picture of a pupils talents should be available.
We then need to have a number of different schools to cater for different types of pupils, something like a knowledge school for children who are skilled in sciences, maths, technical drawing etc.. this is where you get your new generation of scienctists and scholars. Craft schools for children skilled in the manual application of education, this is where you get your new generation of skilled craftsmen and engineers. You could also have some sort of scholarship system where pupils who only want to play sport are given the oppertunity to, but on the understanding that they lose that privilege if they do not also learn basic skills.
In short what we need to do is not force education of children, but create a system where they want to learn.
I may be wrong though!
Quite correctly we have realised that this is not an appropriate way to educate young people and have removed the frankly cruel concept of corporal punishment from todays educated system.
However you now have the problem that you are trying to educate a broad spectrum of children with a shotgun style education system and coupled with that you have now removed the total power that teachers used to have and left them with nothing to install discpline with.
Some children don't want to learn and nothing in the way the education system is being run now will make them. They are labled as troublemakers, as to a extent they are. Children like these not only refuse to take part in the learning proccess, they stop other more willing children taking part as well. The problem is now amplified as you have generations of familes who can't and won't take part in the usual proccess of learning whilst young and employing skills learnt when the are adults.
What can be done about this?
I personally think that we need a drastic overhaul of the educate system. If you can't force children to sit quietly and attentively in a classroom with the threat of violence if they refuse you have to engage with them and find out what will make them take part.
We have at the moment a largely "one size fits all" system in which all children are treated the same (I know there is some tailoring for kids, but the overall proccess is basically the same). If your father went through school not really learning anything and ended up as a labourer or similar it's highly likely that you're not going to give a s
t about quadratic equations either. Similarly the geeky, middle-class kid in class with a talent for physics doesn't really need to be doing woodwork classes.(I'm not saying this is always the case, there is are of course plenty of exceptions to the rules)What needs to be done is for children to be watched at a very young level until they reach secondary school age in order to identify what that pupil is skilled in. A good teacher should be able to spot natural talent a mile off, so over the course of a 7 year period a pretty detailed picture of a pupils talents should be available.
We then need to have a number of different schools to cater for different types of pupils, something like a knowledge school for children who are skilled in sciences, maths, technical drawing etc.. this is where you get your new generation of scienctists and scholars. Craft schools for children skilled in the manual application of education, this is where you get your new generation of skilled craftsmen and engineers. You could also have some sort of scholarship system where pupils who only want to play sport are given the oppertunity to, but on the understanding that they lose that privilege if they do not also learn basic skills.
In short what we need to do is not force education of children, but create a system where they want to learn.
I may be wrong though!
Craigyp79 said:
You see, I think the problem is nowadays that unlike 30 odd years ago there is no real disipline in classrooms, largely because the only way to control certain pupils is the threat of a beating should they not behave.
Quite correctly we have realised that this is not an appropriate way to educate young people and have removed the frankly cruel concept of corporal punishment from todays educated system.
However you now have the problem that you are trying to educate a broad spectrum of children with a shotgun style education system and coupled with that you have now removed the total power that teachers used to have and left them with nothing to install discpline with.
Some children don't want to learn and nothing in the way the education system is being run now will make them. They are labled as troublemakers, as to a extent they are. Children like these not only refuse to take part in the learning proccess, they stop other more willing children taking part as well. The problem is now amplified as you have generations of familes who can't and won't take part in the usual proccess of learning whilst young and employing skills learnt when the are adults.
What can be done about this?
I personally think that we need a drastic overhaul of the educate system. If you can't force children to sit quietly and attentively in a classroom with the threat of violence if they refuse you have to engage with them and find out what will make them take part.
We have at the moment a largely "one size fits all" system in which all children are treated the same (I know there is some tailoring for kids, but the overall proccess is basically the same). If your father went through school not really learning anything and ended up as a labourer or similar it's highly likely that you're not going to give a st about quadratic equations either. Similarly the geeky, middle-class kid in class with a talent for physics doesn't really need to be doing woodwork classes.(I'm not saying this is always the case, there is are of course plenty of exceptions to the rules)
What needs to be done is for children to be watched at a very young level until they reach secondary school age in order to identify what that pupil is skilled in. A good teacher should be able to spot natural talent a mile off, so over the course of a 7 year period a pretty detailed picture of a pupils talents should be available.
We then need to have a number of different schools to cater for different types of pupils, something like a knowledge school for children who are skilled in sciences, maths, technical drawing etc.. this is where you get your new generation of scienctists and scholars. Craft schools for children skilled in the manual application of education, this is where you get your new generation of skilled craftsmen and engineers. You could also have some sort of scholarship system where pupils who only want to play sport are given the oppertunity to, but on the understanding that they lose that privilege if they do not also learn basic skills.
In short what we need to do is not force education of children, but create a system where they want to learn.
I may be wrong though!
lol, you mean the system we used to have before "comprehensives" Quite correctly we have realised that this is not an appropriate way to educate young people and have removed the frankly cruel concept of corporal punishment from todays educated system.
However you now have the problem that you are trying to educate a broad spectrum of children with a shotgun style education system and coupled with that you have now removed the total power that teachers used to have and left them with nothing to install discpline with.
Some children don't want to learn and nothing in the way the education system is being run now will make them. They are labled as troublemakers, as to a extent they are. Children like these not only refuse to take part in the learning proccess, they stop other more willing children taking part as well. The problem is now amplified as you have generations of familes who can't and won't take part in the usual proccess of learning whilst young and employing skills learnt when the are adults.
What can be done about this?
I personally think that we need a drastic overhaul of the educate system. If you can't force children to sit quietly and attentively in a classroom with the threat of violence if they refuse you have to engage with them and find out what will make them take part.
We have at the moment a largely "one size fits all" system in which all children are treated the same (I know there is some tailoring for kids, but the overall proccess is basically the same). If your father went through school not really learning anything and ended up as a labourer or similar it's highly likely that you're not going to give a s
t about quadratic equations either. Similarly the geeky, middle-class kid in class with a talent for physics doesn't really need to be doing woodwork classes.(I'm not saying this is always the case, there is are of course plenty of exceptions to the rules)What needs to be done is for children to be watched at a very young level until they reach secondary school age in order to identify what that pupil is skilled in. A good teacher should be able to spot natural talent a mile off, so over the course of a 7 year period a pretty detailed picture of a pupils talents should be available.
We then need to have a number of different schools to cater for different types of pupils, something like a knowledge school for children who are skilled in sciences, maths, technical drawing etc.. this is where you get your new generation of scienctists and scholars. Craft schools for children skilled in the manual application of education, this is where you get your new generation of skilled craftsmen and engineers. You could also have some sort of scholarship system where pupils who only want to play sport are given the oppertunity to, but on the understanding that they lose that privilege if they do not also learn basic skills.
In short what we need to do is not force education of children, but create a system where they want to learn.
I may be wrong though!
Got binned by the "you can't label kids when they are young" brigade
Otherwise known as the 'T'aint fair Mob
Craigyp79 said:
Quite correctly we have realised that this is not an appropriate way to educate young people and have removed the frankly cruel concept of corporal punishment from todays educated system.
Tosh! The day they removed the rod from the teacher's hand was the day they made another one for the teacher's back.TheEnd said:
It that was me who got battered by a teacher, I'd be dreading my parents turning up at the hospital, as they'd finish the job.
That's what kept me on the straight and narrow during my school years. It wasn't fear of the teachers - although there were some for whom I had the greatest of respect; they earned it - it was fear that my parents would find out. If I got punished at school and word got back home, I would be punished again at home for doing something to deserve punishment in the first place.Discipline and consequences: They are they key. The problem today is that there are no consequences for bad behaviour.
Edited by Strangely Brown on Friday 10th July 21:30
Strangely Brown said:
TheEnd said:
It that was me who got battered by a teacher, I'd be dreading my parents turning up at the hospital, as they'd finish the job.
That's what kept me on the straight and narrow during my school years. It wasn't fear of the teachers - although there were some for whom I had the greatest of respect; they earned it - it was fear that my parents would find out. If I got punished at school and word got back home, I would be punished again at home for doing something to deserve punishment in the first place.Discipline and consequences: They are they key. The problem today is that there are no consequences for bad behaviour.
http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/uk/39Stressed39-te...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/nottinghamshire...
http://www.wakefieldexpress.co.uk/latest-east-midl...
Kids take piss out of stressed teacher who had just returned after suffering a stress-induced stroke. Teacher goes psycho. If the kids had been more caring/respectful, things wouldn't have got out of hand. The end result is to be expected, really. No, not a justification, Mr Red Top Reader. The kids wanted to see what would happen if they pushed him... so there you go, dear sweet, innocent children.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/nottinghamshire...
http://www.wakefieldexpress.co.uk/latest-east-midl...
Kids take piss out of stressed teacher who had just returned after suffering a stress-induced stroke. Teacher goes psycho. If the kids had been more caring/respectful, things wouldn't have got out of hand. The end result is to be expected, really. No, not a justification, Mr Red Top Reader. The kids wanted to see what would happen if they pushed him... so there you go, dear sweet, innocent children.
Well all I want to say on this subject is that this was inevitably going to happen someday. I don't and can't pass judgement on this incident. It just seems to me that the majority of children nowadays are brought up without any moral code and discipline at home. For years the teachers have had to put up with the burden of teaching classes full of kids who have had no domestic education and have had to teach not only their educational subjects but also to teach moral and ethical standards to kids who know "what my rights are". Since corporal punishment was abolished, these children know they can get away with anything they want and the teacher can't do f'all about it! You couldn't pay me enough to go into the teaching profession. Bring back corporal punishment, get these kids in line. You can see for yourselves what happens after two generations without it!
Craigyp79 said:
In short what we need to do is not force education of children, but create a system where they want to learn.
There is a very simple solution. No qualifications = no benefits. I went through O & A levels, then University so I could get the sort of job I wanted to do. Fear of not getting a good job motivated me.
If the average waster thinks the solution is to do nothing because there will be a benefits system, then adjust it so there isn't one.
V8mate said:
JJCW said:
What do we reckon?
Bad kid pushes teacher too far?
or
Psycho teacher?
Doesn't one create the other?[/quoteBad kid pushes teacher too far?
or
Psycho teacher?
My father in law was a perfectly normal teacher until he got a job in Norris Green with little scally (and ferel) kids and a useless head teacher. Over 10 years he went from normal to having a full blown mental breakdown in class, and had to be escorted to a place of safety. It took him another 10 years to become normal again.
These were 8 year olds he was dealing with.
As a teenager I must admit to seeing how far you could push some of the more wet teachers, but in our school they knew that the head would back them up, so you ended up having the cane and your parents being summoned and being given a report card. And if every teacher didn't put your behaviour as A + (I know because one put me down as a B) then you were still in the s
t. Roll on 30 years and teachers have no back up and kids have no respect, so you'd better have a back bone of steel and very thick skin.
Whilst we don't know the facts, I'd like to point out that there are 2 sides to every story, and if a teacher lost it, then
a) There were warning signs which were ignored
b) I have some sympathy
c) The teacher should sue the school for a breach of care.
Basically we are all still animals, last time I looked, and in all of the animal kingdom, young cubs are disciplined and kept in place by their elders by a sharp swipe of a paw, peck of a beak etc.
We are no different but our leaders have decided that we must live without these "constraints" and we are now reaping the consequences. Young people out of control as well as their parents who came up through the same liberal system.
The Government seems surprised at the rising lawlessness but does nothing about it.
I went to school over 30 years ago and I was terrified of the teachers, thus kept my head down, did my lessons and came out of the system a clever and polite young man.
I remember one bully, as big as the teacher, pushing him too far and he was beaten to a pulp in front of the class. He was not smirking after that and he changed his ways as any potential victim would remind him about when sir humiliated him.
I don't know the facts of this situation but it is looking like a case of the teacher losing it with tragic circumstances and I believe that this would not be the case if there was discipline in schools today.
Young pubs need reminding that they are not yet top dog and this has been nature's way for millions of years so who are we to change this in just 30 years. It just will not work.
We are no different but our leaders have decided that we must live without these "constraints" and we are now reaping the consequences. Young people out of control as well as their parents who came up through the same liberal system.
The Government seems surprised at the rising lawlessness but does nothing about it.
I went to school over 30 years ago and I was terrified of the teachers, thus kept my head down, did my lessons and came out of the system a clever and polite young man.
I remember one bully, as big as the teacher, pushing him too far and he was beaten to a pulp in front of the class. He was not smirking after that and he changed his ways as any potential victim would remind him about when sir humiliated him.
I don't know the facts of this situation but it is looking like a case of the teacher losing it with tragic circumstances and I believe that this would not be the case if there was discipline in schools today.
Young pubs need reminding that they are not yet top dog and this has been nature's way for millions of years so who are we to change this in just 30 years. It just will not work.
I haven't really spent a lot of time looking at the specifics of this case, but considering how the balance of power has shifted so much towards the pupils in schools, it's always going to be only a matter of time before someone loses their rag and blows a gasket.
Sadly all the blame then ends up on the individual rather than the system, controls are tightened up even further and the whole thing perpetuates.
Damned political correctness.
Sadly all the blame then ends up on the individual rather than the system, controls are tightened up even further and the whole thing perpetuates.
Damned political correctness.
Merlot said:
croyde said:
As others have said, there is no way that I would be a teacher today.
It is made out to be a lot worse than it actually is, in my experience, although to be fair I've not been in Inner City schools and would not want to, either!A lot of heads appear to have buried their heads in the sand until they get replaced.
croyde said:
Basically we are all still animals, last time I looked, and in all of the animal kingdom, young cubs are disciplined and kept in place by their elders by a sharp swipe of a paw, peck of a beak etc.
Yeah, but a panda swiping her cub's head with her paw and growling is cute. An adult slapping her toddler and screaming at it is child abuse. 
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