Estate where only one person has a job. Enjoy
Discussion
Bing o said:
grantone said:
By allowing the cost of living to go down until the Yorkshire foundry worker no longer wants £15 an hour and we become competitive again.
And how do we do this with soaring inflation and a weak pound?Expect some massive, secondary and tertiary inflation to hit by q3.
Fittster said:
grantone said:
Kermit power said:
...
So, answer the question... How do you pay your Yorkshire foundry worker the £15 an hour he wants, when nobody is prepared to pay the necessary premium for the goods he produces.
By allowing the cost of living to go down until the Yorkshire foundry worker no longer wants £15 an hour and we become competitive again.So, answer the question... How do you pay your Yorkshire foundry worker the £15 an hour he wants, when nobody is prepared to pay the necessary premium for the goods he produces.
If you look up data on time lost to industrial action in the 60s and 70s (which I'm not about to do on a Blackberry, but have posted on previous threads), Germany lost something like a tenth of the time that the UK did to strike action.
As for the Japanese, can you really imagine BL workers turning up early at Longbridge for mass Tai Chi sessions? The Japanese have an insane work ethic, but even there they're not immune, are they? The Japanese economy has been in the doldrums for years.
What the Japanese did manage to do, however, was to adapt. As China grew up and took over their reputation for cheap manufacturing, they moved pretty slickly into a reputation for quality manufacturing. People pay for Japanese cars, cameras and the like because they expect them to be reliable. When has it ever been possible to say that about British mass produced goods?
Lastly, how many companies do you know that can survive without a strong home market? Unlike the British, many Europeans do buy goods because they are from their country. I don't know Germany particularly, but look at places like France and Italy. Through thick or thin, they have bought Pugs, Citroens, Renaults, Fiats and Lancias. In many cases they were just as s
t as anything BL turned out (yes, Lancia Beta, I'm looking at you amongst others), but unlike the ordinary British worker they didn't cut and run for a Datsun at the first opportunity. If the British won't buy British, how on earth can you expect anyone else to?
Fittster said:
grantone said:
Kermit power said:
...
So, answer the question... How do you pay your Yorkshire foundry worker the £15 an hour he wants, when nobody is prepared to pay the necessary premium for the goods he produces.
By allowing the cost of living to go down until the Yorkshire foundry worker no longer wants £15 an hour and we become competitive again.So, answer the question... How do you pay your Yorkshire foundry worker the £15 an hour he wants, when nobody is prepared to pay the necessary premium for the goods he produces.
Edited by Fittster on Tuesday 11th January 08:29
grantone said:
I don't suggest the quality of life should drop until people can only eat gruel, only the cost. We fight deflation like it's a terrible thing, but it's not bad for everyone.
How do you deflate an economy when the pound is devaluing and commodity prices are increasing?ETA
Kermit power said:
I don't know Germany particularly, but look at places like France and Italy.
You can't move in Frankfurt for tripping over a VAG, Merc, Beemer or Pork.Edited by Bing o on Tuesday 11th January 09:08
cazzer said:
Kermit power said:
Pesty said:
yeah we know that buts its a slightly different argument to what Cazzer is talking about I belive. You won't hear me dissagreeing about how the state perpetuates this problem with benefits.
What if the man in your example could do a tough job like work in a foundry that maybe does not need a huge amount of quals? he could maybe earn £15 an hour but the foundries are not there any more they are in India and China.
These jobs down the pit or in the steel mill have all but gone for various reasons.
Those jobs have by and large gone for one single reason. Your man in Yorkshire expects to earn £15 an hour in his foundry, whereas his counterpart in India or China expects to earn £15 a day if he's very lucky.What if the man in your example could do a tough job like work in a foundry that maybe does not need a huge amount of quals? he could maybe earn £15 an hour but the foundries are not there any more they are in India and China.
These jobs down the pit or in the steel mill have all but gone for various reasons.
Why do you suppose your man in Yorkshire doesn't have a foundry to work in?
Don't blame the government. Blame previous generations of workers and unions who demanded princely wages for peasant jobs.
Seriously, peasents? f
k off.He probably doesn't pay 40p for his loaf of bread either, but then the people harvesting the wheat, driving it to the bakery, making the bread, driving it to the shop, putting it on the shelf and taking the money for it at the till in China aren't all expecting to be paid £6 an hour either.
The Chinese worker isn't paying thousands in council tax either, but then he isn't expecting his roads to be maintained and his bins to be emptied by people earning £6 an hour, to say nothing of services he doesn't expect to receive at all.
A lot of people have suggested that unemployment is a result of us not making stuff any more.
I can't quite figure out who would buy the stuff that a resurgent British manufacturing base would produce, if it couldn't sell it at a competitive price.
Other than that, I think it's a splendid idea.
I can't quite figure out who would buy the stuff that a resurgent British manufacturing base would produce, if it couldn't sell it at a competitive price.
Other than that, I think it's a splendid idea.
cazzer said:
Yes ok. So we'll all move to london then the world will be perfect.
Because heaven forbid anywhere else needs to exist.
I give up.
They don't need to move that far - we're talking about relatively small areas that are seriously depressed because the local community existed to serve a now extinct industry, not the whole of the UK outside the South East.Because heaven forbid anywhere else needs to exist.
I give up.
grantone said:
Kermit power said:
...
So, answer the question... How do you pay your Yorkshire foundry worker the £15 an hour he wants, when nobody is prepared to pay the necessary premium for the goods he produces.
By allowing the cost of living to go down until the Yorkshire foundry worker no longer wants £15 an hour and we become competitive again.So, answer the question... How do you pay your Yorkshire foundry worker the £15 an hour he wants, when nobody is prepared to pay the necessary premium for the goods he produces.
People on here are asking if they should be expected to live in shared accommodation if they are unskilled workers. They might not like the idea, but the fact is that for the overwhelming majority of people on this planet, that is the lot of unskilled workers.
What exactly makes British unskilled workers different to the unskilled workers in other countries with whom they are competing?
Kermit power said:
Exactly! The bloke in China doesn't pay £1.30 a litre for petrol. He probably doesn't pay anything for petrol because he is a factory worker who can't even dream of running a car on his salary. Why would you automatically assume an unskilled factory worker here should be able to afford to run a car?
Because thanks to our high quality public transport system you need personal transport to get to work. If you need to be in work for 7am and the first bus from your home to work would get you there at 8 having left at 5 and travelled halfway round the county then you can't use that.As an example was years back I was doing a summer job in Fradley and living in Shenstone, without a car my trip to or from work was walk to station catch the train to Lichfield change train and go to Lichfield Trent valley then walk 2 miles, so a 9 mile journey to work meant 2 trains to cover 3 stops and a walk. Then a similar summer job in Aldridge that was unreachable by public transport. Poorly paid low skilled jobs tend to be on trading estates which tend to be on the outskirts of towns close to main roads but not always convenient for public transport.
Engineer1 said:
Kermit power said:
Exactly! The bloke in China doesn't pay £1.30 a litre for petrol. He probably doesn't pay anything for petrol because he is a factory worker who can't even dream of running a car on his salary. Why would you automatically assume an unskilled factory worker here should be able to afford to run a car?
Because thanks to our high quality public transport system you need personal transport to get to work. If you need to be in work for 7am and the first bus from your home to work would get you there at 8 having left at 5 and travelled halfway round the county then you can't use that.As an example was years back I was doing a summer job in Fradley and living in Shenstone, without a car my trip to or from work was walk to station catch the train to Lichfield change train and go to Lichfield Trent valley then walk 2 miles, so a 9 mile journey to work meant 2 trains to cover 3 stops and a walk. Then a similar summer job in Aldridge that was unreachable by public transport. Poorly paid low skilled jobs tend to be on trading estates which tend to be on the outskirts of towns close to main roads but not always convenient for public transport.
There are plenty of people in this country, skilled or otherwise, who choose to cycle those sorts of distances because they want to get fit, save money or whatever.
Engineer1 said:
The 9 miles could be motorway, or fast dual carriageway which in this case it was I really wouldn't have fancied cycling the route at 7am on a winter morning atleast with the walk I could keep well out of the way of the cars.
So there were no other possible routes, even if they were a mile or two longer?Engineer1 said:
The 9 miles could be motorway, or fast dual carriageway which in this case it was I really wouldn't have fancied cycling the route at 7am on a winter morning atleast with the walk I could keep well out of the way of the cars.
Quite right.It's one thing cycling to work when several million other people do likewise, but another thing when the roads are already operating beyond capacity with other vehicles. The UK's provision for cycling is laughable compared to many of our European neighbours especailly.
To add to E1's opint, we've been 'targeted' by some seat-shiner in the LA to fill in a "Transport Plan". We are on an industrial estate, the nearest bus stop is miles away and the provision for cycling - other than some recently added (and admittedly pretty good) cycle paths is non-existant. (I see pople commuting on bikes, but shudder at the risk they take on narrow, congested roads, populated by numpties.)
Most employees have no option but to drive.
<Subtitles for Southerners and Government 'Transport' Ministers; we are nowhere near a tube station.>
Kermit power said:
Fittster said:
grantone said:
Kermit power said:
...
So, answer the question... How do you pay your Yorkshire foundry worker the £15 an hour he wants, when nobody is prepared to pay the necessary premium for the goods he produces.
By allowing the cost of living to go down until the Yorkshire foundry worker no longer wants £15 an hour and we become competitive again.So, answer the question... How do you pay your Yorkshire foundry worker the £15 an hour he wants, when nobody is prepared to pay the necessary premium for the goods he produces.
As for the Japanese, can you really imagine BL workers turning up early at Longbridge for mass Tai Chi sessions? The Japanese have an insane work ethic, but even there they're not immune, are they? The Japanese economy has been in the doldrums for years.
....
There has been a massive death of industries over the last 20 year. Even round these parts (Lowestoft area) a lot of the large companies have gone.
Electronics, fishing, canning, woodyards, boatbuilding and the meat processing plant has also gone (due to fire) but they will not be bringing it back and are moving production. Even Bernard Matthews have scaled back as well.
So, if the big companies have gone why doesn't the Government help small businesses more?
I still think the future of this country is the one man and his van - Now even that is being killed due to fuel prices.
As for not working, I really think it is installed into a lot of inactive families. Father has not worked for years (bad back)! Children just dont care anymore or (and I have found this) they want £500 a week at 17 but not willing to start at the bottom like making teas etc.
A 17 year old I know wants a moped. Is he willing to get a paperround or weekend job. Nah! He has gone to Collage to do a really pointless course.
But there is no get up and go. I know a chap who owns his carpentry business and tends to employ the troublesome ones to give them a break (like he had) but he found that if you ask them to sweep up they will, and then stop for more instructions even if there is a pile right in front of them.
Edited by Morningside on Tuesday 11th January 10:20
Yes but it would be nearly doubling the length of the journey. The whole point is people don't expect to have to cycle to work motoring has been cheap enough that a low paid worker could own and run a car, now it is getting too expensive. The issue really comes down to pre-car the factory was across the road from the houses, now the factory is out on the outskirts. I suspect the Chinese worker's house is close to the factory and also that they are starting to expect improved living conditions.
Johnnytheboy said:
A lot of people have suggested that unemployment is a result of us not making stuff any more.
We make high tech stuff that requires people who are technical, create, innovative and a good grasp of science. Most of the skiprats on this estate can't even read or write properly let alone apply for these 21st century jobs.Engineer1 said:
Yes but it would be nearly doubling the length of the journey. The whole point is people don't expect to have to cycle to work motoring has been cheap enough that a low paid worker could own and run a car, now it is getting too expensive. The issue really comes down to pre-car the factory was across the road from the houses, now the factory is out on the outskirts. I suspect the Chinese worker's house is close to the factory and also that they are starting to expect improved living conditions.
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