Boris Johnson-Prime Minister (Vol 8)
Discussion
b
hstewie said:
Christ almighty, can these people actually be any less self-aware? Sneery little thstewie said:
t needs to try living on benefits for a while, the rest of his life ideally. Blackpuddin said:
bhstewie said:
Christ almighty, can these people actually be any less self-aware? Sneery little thstewie said:t needs to try living on benefits for a while, the rest of his life ideally. The only time I've ever heard "emergency budget" be used front and centre was boy George around 6yrs ago. Was Gove giving an example of things being manipulated? Or was he genuinely sneering at people struggling with costs?
Murph7355 said:
Blackpuddin said:
bhstewie said:
Christ almighty, can these people actually be any less self-aware? Sneery little thstewie said:t needs to try living on benefits for a while, the rest of his life ideally. The only time I've ever heard "emergency budget" be used front and centre was boy George around 6yrs ago. Was Gove giving an example of things being manipulated? Or was he genuinely sneering at people struggling with costs?
Murph7355 said:
Where is the full interview and what are those comments in relation to?
The only time I've ever heard "emergency budget" be used front and centre was boy George around 6yrs ago. Was Gove giving an example of things being manipulated? Or was he genuinely sneering at people struggling with costs?
Surely you can see he's off his tits.The only time I've ever heard "emergency budget" be used front and centre was boy George around 6yrs ago. Was Gove giving an example of things being manipulated? Or was he genuinely sneering at people struggling with costs?
Full link here.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-61404665
You seem to be correct.
Gove was putting his spin on the comments, not sneering at anyone other than people in the HoC it seems.
Always unwise for besuited MPs to try and sound cool and funny, but then characterless and dull is hardly something you'd write on your CV as a positive either (unless you're an accountant). Another non-story from BS' enormous back catalogue
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-61404665
You seem to be correct.
Gove was putting his spin on the comments, not sneering at anyone other than people in the HoC it seems.
Always unwise for besuited MPs to try and sound cool and funny, but then characterless and dull is hardly something you'd write on your CV as a positive either (unless you're an accountant). Another non-story from BS' enormous back catalogue
turbobloke said:
Blue62 said:
Dixy said:
So it is all just a game
It always has been, especially under a tired, tribal FPTP system that confines our real life choices and reduces meaningful debate and policy development to nothing more than playing to the baying mob. It's certainly not tired; the alternatives are, in contrast, comatose.
As for changing the voting system, due to our lack of checks and balances any government can change the system. They may not even be conventionally punished as the changed system will likely result in a different composition anyway. Putting PR or a Royal Commission to investigate PR into a manifesto isn't going to shift an election either, nor is it a particularly easy policy to attack "the opposition want to make the election system more representative, this must be stopped!".
The idea that the failure of the AV vote in a referendum is a long term blocker or gauge of sentiment is not borne out. AV was proposed by an unpopular minor party, proposed at a time when politicians were very unpopular, actively opposed by the government, not supported by Labour and had a No campaign who basically lied repeatedly. Also AV itself is for many people insufficiently radical as it still leaves lots of votes with limited impact.
I would suggest that the best way to do it would be to propose STV and multi-member constituencies, authorise this through a parliamentary vote (assuming popular) and propose having a referendum on whether to keep the system rather than a referendum on the system. I would also use this as an opportunity to teach civics in schools and lower the voting age (personally I would give everyone the vote with parents proxying for their under 10s) so everyone experiences their first election while they are at school so they get into the habit of debating, voting and understanding the exercise of power.
The Tories would never do this because they benefit from the current system, I think the sell to Labour would be that they aren't doing too well out of FPTP and that the British population is more progressive in opinion polls than the governments it gets. Ergo more labour policies would be enacted even if they were done in coalition with other parties.
Talksteer said:
turbobloke said:
Blue62 said:
Dixy said:
So it is all just a game
It always has been, especially under a tired, tribal FPTP system that confines our real life choices and reduces meaningful debate and policy development to nothing more than playing to the baying mob. It's certainly not tired; the alternatives are, in contrast, comatose.
As for changing the voting system, due to our lack of checks and balances any government can change the system. They may not even be conventionally punished as the changed system will likely result in a different composition anyway. Putting PR or a Royal Commission to investigate PR into a manifesto isn't going to shift an election either, nor is it a particularly easy policy to attack "the opposition want to make the election system more representative, this must be stopped!".
The idea that the failure of the AV vote in a referendum is a long term blocker or gauge of sentiment is not borne out. AV was proposed by an unpopular minor party, proposed at a time when politicians were very unpopular, actively opposed by the government, not supported by Labour and had a No campaign who basically lied repeatedly. Also AV itself is for many people insufficiently radical as it still leaves lots of votes with limited impact.
I would suggest that the best way to do it would be to propose STV and multi-member constituencies, authorise this through a parliamentary vote (assuming popular) and propose having a referendum on whether to keep the system rather than a referendum on the system. I would also use this as an opportunity to teach civics in schools and lower the voting age (personally I would give everyone the vote with parents proxying for their under 10s) so everyone experiences their first election while they are at school so they get into the habit of debating, voting and understanding the exercise of power.
The Tories would never do this because they benefit from the current system, I think the sell to Labour would be that they aren't doing too well out of FPTP and that the British population is more progressive in opinion polls than the governments it gets. Ergo more labour policies would be enacted even if they were done in coalition with other parties.
Assuming travel in one's own preferred political direction is progressive is transparently bogus.
However back on topic - if there's another AV or a PR referendum for AoUK I know where my money's going, how about you?
The Theresa May going nowhere exercise, aided and abetted by Not-Lord-Bercow, showed the UK electorate exactly what political 'progress' looks like in a situation where a gov't lacks a majority and policy lacks clear impetus due to that - political constipation.
The idea that a hypothetical middle ground is always for the good is also bogus, reality isn't that simplistic.
NerveAgent said:
Blackpuddin said:
Really don't get why people still think that this hopelessly outdated party system is in any way relevant or that Conservative, Labour or Liberal actually represent them in any meaningful fashion. Voting nowadays is brainless historical tribalism, nothing more.
Interesting to note in last week's council elections the growth of '(Insert Your Town Name Here) First' candidates, focusing purely on local issues.
Yup, it seems that tribalism overrides everything. With our political system pretty much forcing and all or nothing outcome, people want their chosen "team" to win at all costs. What we are left with is this dated cringefest of tosspots.Interesting to note in last week's council elections the growth of '(Insert Your Town Name Here) First' candidates, focusing purely on local issues.
Turnout is usually well under 30% though so it's hardly what the majority want, I think they ended up winning with considerable margins on the back of 15% of the available votes being cast their way.
But it's what the people want... isn't it?
bhstewie said:
I think everyone's heard about his long standing habits...hstewie said:Obviously he's out of hibernation at the moment and busy breaking out of his little corner to trample into everyone else's remit. He'll go quiet again soon enough.
God knows why Boris keeps him around - shared secrets, a distraction, he actually likes him(?!) or just pure morbid fascination.
bhstewie said:
I'll add the word you omitted ...WTF?!hstewie said:pquinn said:
bhstewie said:
I think everyone's heard about his long standing habits...hstewie said:Obviously he's out of hibernation at the moment and busy breaking out of his little corner to trample into everyone else's remit. He'll go quiet again soon enough.
God knows why Boris keeps him around - shared secrets, a distraction, he actually likes him(?!) or just pure morbid fascination.
That’s why I don’t find him remotely cute.
Best kept away from sharp things.
bhstewie said:
I thought I saw a pic of a mug.hstewie said:
Blackpuddin said:
Really don't get why people still think that this hopelessly outdated party system is in any way relevant or that Conservative, Labour or Liberal actually represent them in any meaningful fashion. Voting nowadays is brainless historical tribalism, nothing more.
Not always. I vote based on who is the closest to my personal political beliefs; I read the manifestos and vote for my least worst option.Generally that has been Tory but if the other Miliband had been there then he would have had my vote.
I like "hope/positive", driven candidates, not suits. Blair was a bit OTT but a very good communicator. Brown had a big brain and intellect (and kept us out of the Euro) but was a shocking communicator until it came to devolution where he found is mojo. Corbyn was toxic.
Can't work out Starmer. I think he got boxed in on policy in the pandemic and again on partygate. I could vote for him (and know people that taught him law - with mixed views), I just don't know what he stands for (yet)
Johnson is not my preference but he has his moments (esp recently on Ukraine)
Except local elections where I look at just local impact / results -- Independent, Green, Tory, whatever. Bonus points if they actually canvas door to door or do a town hall with a genuine attempt to engage.
pquinn said:
I think everyone's heard about his long standing habits...
Obviously he's out of hibernation at the moment and busy breaking out of his little corner to trample into everyone else's remit. He'll go quiet again soon enough.
God knows why Boris keeps him around - shared secrets, a distraction, he actually likes him(?!) or just pure morbid fascination.
Obviously he's out of hibernation at the moment and busy breaking out of his little corner to trample into everyone else's remit. He'll go quiet again soon enough.
God knows why Boris keeps him around - shared secrets, a distraction, he actually likes him(?!) or just pure morbid fascination.
vaud said:
Blackpuddin said:
Really don't get why people still think that this hopelessly outdated party system is in any way relevant or that Conservative, Labour or Liberal actually represent them in any meaningful fashion. Voting nowadays is brainless historical tribalism, nothing more.
I vote for my least worst option.Blackpuddin said:
Not trying to be cheeky but don't you think we deserve better choices than that?
Oh I agree 100%. But with the current system it dissuades those that I might vote for from entering the system. A system where your children might be bullied at school (even by teachers), your bins gone through, every aspect of your private life and prior mistakes, etc.
There are a few that I admire from each side - Dan Jarvis, Tobias Ellwood spring to mind.
turbobloke said:
bhstewie said:
I'll add the word you omitted ...WTF?!hstewie said:Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff