45th President of the United States, Donald Trump. Vol 2

[Blue Cat]

scherzkeks said:

Blue Cat said:

scherzkeks said:

roachcoach said:

Murph7355 said:

He's copping flak for people taking him too literally and dissecting every last word as if it was the poet laureate saying them. Which we know is not who he is! If every single thing any of us said was dissected to that degree we could all be made to look a little...fragile. (Yes, you and I included!).

He and his administration is copping flak for outright making stuff up whilst calling everyone else liars.

The moral high ground is so far above them they can't even see the bottom of it.

Are the media blameless? Absolutely not. Does the administration help itself? Not in the slightest, it lies about the dumbest things imaginable. Inconsequential things, yet it lies and lies and lies.

Examples where you can prove or reasonably say there was intent to deceive? I can think of 3-4 events where someone misspoke. Quite understandable given the volume of information circulating.

Quite simply his promise to release his tax returns - outright lie he never intended to keep

Potentially, but he also claimed he'd do it when Hillary released her 33,000 deleted emails, IIRC.

Please do not roll out the 'but Hillary' excuse, he promised that if he was elected that he would release his tax returns and now he is refusing to do so, so he lied.

[minimoog]

Murph7355 said:

So take none of it literally but look at the thrust.

If anyone decides to take his utterances literally he has no-one to blame but himself.

Let's accept that some at least of his policies have an underlying basis which, from a US POV, are sensible or at least not wholly undesirable.

Why then pursue these policies in the most divisive and unproductive way possible? Why declare war on the press, on the Dems, on the judiciary, on the intelligence community? He has done little else but antagonise at least half the country and many of the institutions which might otherwise support him in his task. It's difficult not to conclude that by doing this he is either incompetent, or has something or perhaps many things to hide, and is being overly defensive as a result.

There is an awful lot of smoke drifting around him, be it alleged Russian ties, personal and family business interests benefiting from his position, the interests of his cronies benefiting from his policies (e.g. energy and environmental de-regulation), etc, and I'd now add in abuse of the public purse to finance his weekend golfing breaks in Florida. There's a good chance that sooner or later one or another of these issues will spark into flame. Because of his inflammatory approach to even mundane issues his stock of goodwill to deal with any such crisis will be minimal outside of his core support. He may yet come to rue that.

[anonymous-user]

Hold the front page!

A fellow world leader has come out and said Trump should be given a chance to prove himself!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-39027611?oc...

So there's an ally...

[Finlandia]

Eric Mc said:

Finlandia said:

Instead of going for the cheap personal insults, why don't you try to come up with something that may actually help clean up the mess, as it is now it is not good for anyone.

What mess?

The mess Sweden is in.

[p1stonhead]

Finlandia said:

Eric Mc said:

Finlandia said:

Instead of going for the cheap personal insults, why don't you try to come up with something that may actually help clean up the mess, as it is now it is not good for anyone.

What mess?

The mess Sweden is in.

Is this the mess you are causing as a 'good' immigrant? Or the mess the other 'bad' immigrants are causing?

[scherzkeks]

Blue Cat said:

scherzkeks said:

Blue Cat said:

scherzkeks said:

roachcoach said:

Murph7355 said:

He's copping flak for people taking him too literally and dissecting every last word as if it was the poet laureate saying them. Which we know is not who he is! If every single thing any of us said was dissected to that degree we could all be made to look a little...fragile. (Yes, you and I included!).

He and his administration is copping flak for outright making stuff up whilst calling everyone else liars.

The moral high ground is so far above them they can't even see the bottom of it.

Are the media blameless? Absolutely not. Does the administration help itself? Not in the slightest, it lies about the dumbest things imaginable. Inconsequential things, yet it lies and lies and lies.

Examples where you can prove or reasonably say there was intent to deceive? I can think of 3-4 events where someone misspoke. Quite understandable given the volume of information circulating.

Quite simply his promise to release his tax returns - outright lie he never intended to keep

Potentially, but he also claimed he'd do it when Hillary released her 33,000 deleted emails, IIRC.

Please do not roll out the 'but Hillary' excuse, he promised that if he was elected that he would release his tax returns and now he is refusing to do so, so he lied.

It isn't an excuse; it was something he said.

I personally don't care whether he does. It is not required by law.

[Blue Cat]

Blue Cat said:

scherzkeks said:

Blue Cat said:

scherzkeks said:

roachcoach said:

Murph7355 said:

He's copping flak for people taking him too literally and dissecting every last word as if it was the poet laureate saying them. Which we know is not who he is! If every single thing any of us said was dissected to that degree we could all be made to look a little...fragile. (Yes, you and I included!).

He and his administration is copping flak for outright making stuff up whilst calling everyone else liars.

The moral high ground is so far above them they can't even see the bottom of it.

Are the media blameless? Absolutely not. Does the administration help itself? Not in the slightest, it lies about the dumbest things imaginable. Inconsequential things, yet it lies and lies and lies.

Examples where you can prove or reasonably say there was intent to deceive? I can think of 3-4 events where someone misspoke. Quite understandable given the volume of information circulating.

Quite simply his promise to release his tax returns - outright lie he never intended to keep

Potentially, but he also claimed he'd do it when Hillary released her 33,000 deleted emails, IIRC.

Please do not roll out the 'but Hillary' excuse, he promised that if he was elected that he would release his tax returns and now he is refusing to do so, so he lied.

And just in case your next post is to ask for evidence:

February 25, 2015: "I would release tax returns....I would certainly show tax returns if it was necessary....I have no objection to certainly showing tax returns."

January 24, 2016: "We're working on that now. I have very big returns, as you know, and I have everything all approved and very beautiful, and we'll be working that over in the next period of time....We're working on it right now, and at the appropriate time you'll be very satisfied."

February 25, 2016: "I will absolutely give my return, but I'm being audited now for two or three years, so I can't do it until the audit is finished, obviously."

May 10, 2016: "I'll release. Hopefully before the election I'll release."

September 26, 2016: "I don't mind releasing—I'm under a routine audit. And it'll be released....As soon as the audit's finished, it will be released."

October 9, 2016: "As soon as my routine audit is finished, I'll release my returns. I'll be very proud to. They're actually quite great."

[FredClogs]

Finlandia said:

Eric Mc said:

Finlandia said:

Instead of going for the cheap personal insults, why don't you try to come up with something that may actually help clean up the mess, as it is now it is not good for anyone.

What mess?

The mess Sweden is in.

Ok Chicken Licken, you've got your own thread for that.

[Oceanic]

Finlandia said:

The mess Sweden is in.

Sweden is not really in a mess though, ok a few things happen here and there but generally things run pretty well in my experience.

[scherzkeks]

Alpinestars said:

scherzkeks said:

Alpinestars said:

scherzkeks said:

Examples where you can prove or reasonably say there was intent to deceive? I can think of 3-4 events where someone misspoke. Quite understandable given the volume of information circulating.

Is it down to low IQs or bad advice then?

Is there any onus on POTUS and his advisors to get it right?

In the 4-5 cases cited, I would say it is down to information overload and misspeaking. Liklihood of intent to deceive is quite low, as the items were all easily verifiable by even the average joe with an Internet connection.

Not sure if that's a long winded way of calling him dumb.

If the facts are that verifiable, why is he getting it wrong?

In most cases adminstration officials are making the statements, and to date the simplest explanation would seem to be misspeaking.

If the items were not easily verifiable, it would point more toward deception -- the sort of thing the Clown News Network engages in. This logic stuff is quite useful.

[Blue Cat]

scherzkeks said:

Blue Cat said:

scherzkeks said:

Blue Cat said:

scherzkeks said:

roachcoach said:

Murph7355 said:

He's copping flak for people taking him too literally and dissecting every last word as if it was the poet laureate saying them. Which we know is not who he is! If every single thing any of us said was dissected to that degree we could all be made to look a little...fragile. (Yes, you and I included!).

He and his administration is copping flak for outright making stuff up whilst calling everyone else liars.

The moral high ground is so far above them they can't even see the bottom of it.

Are the media blameless? Absolutely not. Does the administration help itself? Not in the slightest, it lies about the dumbest things imaginable. Inconsequential things, yet it lies and lies and lies.

Examples where you can prove or reasonably say there was intent to deceive? I can think of 3-4 events where someone misspoke. Quite understandable given the volume of information circulating.

Quite simply his promise to release his tax returns - outright lie he never intended to keep

Potentially, but he also claimed he'd do it when Hillary released her 33,000 deleted emails, IIRC.

Please do not roll out the 'but Hillary' excuse, he promised that if he was elected that he would release his tax returns and now he is refusing to do so, so he lied.

It isn't an excuse; it was something he said.

I personally don't care whether he does. It is not required by law.

But you asked for "Examples where you can prove or reasonably say there was intent to deceive?"

And I was giving you an example, so you admit that he lied to everyone

[968]

Greg66 said:

Hold the front page!

A fellow world leader has come out and said Trump should be given a chance to prove himself!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-39027611?oc...

So there's an ally...

Lol

When Piers Morgan and Robert Mugabe have your back, you know you're on the wrong side.

[minimoog]

p1stonhead said:

Is this the mess you are causing as a 'good' immigrant? Or the mess the other 'bad' immigrants are causing?

How about leaving this dead-end 'point' alone.

Issues flowing from Sweden's immigration policy are well documented. Just one example of many:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/20/goth...

[Finlandia]

p1stonhead said:

Is this the mess you are causing as a 'good' immigrant? Or the mess the other 'bad' immigrants are causing?

It's the mess that politicians are causing by letting in too many in too short a time, with no plan to make things work.

Oceanic said:

Finlandia said:

The mess Sweden is in.

Sweden is not really in a mess though, ok a few things happen here and there but generally things run pretty well in my experience.

Many would disagree, especially the residents of the trouble zones. Higher taxes and lower level of services for the tax money affects us all though.

[p1stonhead]

minimoog said:

p1stonhead said:

Is this the mess you are causing as a 'good' immigrant? Or the mess the other 'bad' immigrants are causing?

How about leaving this dead-end 'point' alone.

Issues flowing from Sweden's immigration policy are well documented. Just one example of many:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/20/goth...

Im well aware I was being facetious.

[jmorgan]

968 said:

Greg66 said:

Hold the front page!

A fellow world leader has come out and said Trump should be given a chance to prove himself!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-39027611?oc...

So there's an ally...

Lol

When Piers Morgan and Robert Mugabe have your back, you know you're on the wrong side.

Piers in a spot of bother.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39022241

MSM so probably made up and not true.

[scherzkeks]

Blue Cat said:

scherzkeks said:

Blue Cat said:

scherzkeks said:

Blue Cat said:

scherzkeks said:

roachcoach said:

Murph7355 said:

He's copping flak for people taking him too literally and dissecting every last word as if it was the poet laureate saying them. Which we know is not who he is! If every single thing any of us said was dissected to that degree we could all be made to look a little...fragile. (Yes, you and I included!).

He and his administration is copping flak for outright making stuff up whilst calling everyone else liars.

The moral high ground is so far above them they can't even see the bottom of it.

Are the media blameless? Absolutely not. Does the administration help itself? Not in the slightest, it lies about the dumbest things imaginable. Inconsequential things, yet it lies and lies and lies.

Examples where you can prove or reasonably say there was intent to deceive? I can think of 3-4 events where someone misspoke. Quite understandable given the volume of information circulating.

Quite simply his promise to release his tax returns - outright lie he never intended to keep

Potentially, but he also claimed he'd do it when Hillary released her 33,000 deleted emails, IIRC.

Please do not roll out the 'but Hillary' excuse, he promised that if he was elected that he would release his tax returns and now he is refusing to do so, so he lied.

It isn't an excuse; it was something he said.

I personally don't care whether he does. It is not required by law.

But you asked for "Examples where you can prove or reasonably say there was intent to deceive?"

And I was giving you an example, so you admit that he lied to everyone

"Donald Trump on Wednesday afternoon said he didn't tell the Associated Press that he wouldn't release his tax returns before November.

The presumptive GOP nominee said he told the AP that he would release them once the audit of his returns is complete."

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/donald-trump-wont-rele...

The statement conditional on HRC's bleach-bitted e-mails and this one are the only two I am aware of from Trump.

Is the audit complete? Can't say I know or care.

[Oceanic]

Finlandia said:

Many would disagree, especially the residents of the trouble zones. Higher taxes and lower level of services for the tax money affects us all though.

No different to the UK in my opinion, you have council taxes going up at almost 5% this year in some places and services stretched such as social care, schools, hospitals.

[p1stonhead]

scherzkeks said:

Blue Cat said:

scherzkeks said:

Blue Cat said:

scherzkeks said:

Blue Cat said:

scherzkeks said:

roachcoach said:

Murph7355 said:

He's copping flak for people taking him too literally and dissecting every last word as if it was the poet laureate saying them. Which we know is not who he is! If every single thing any of us said was dissected to that degree we could all be made to look a little...fragile. (Yes, you and I included!).

He and his administration is copping flak for outright making stuff up whilst calling everyone else liars.

The moral high ground is so far above them they can't even see the bottom of it.

Are the media blameless? Absolutely not. Does the administration help itself? Not in the slightest, it lies about the dumbest things imaginable. Inconsequential things, yet it lies and lies and lies.

Examples where you can prove or reasonably say there was intent to deceive? I can think of 3-4 events where someone misspoke. Quite understandable given the volume of information circulating.

Quite simply his promise to release his tax returns - outright lie he never intended to keep

Potentially, but he also claimed he'd do it when Hillary released her 33,000 deleted emails, IIRC.

Please do not roll out the 'but Hillary' excuse, he promised that if he was elected that he would release his tax returns and now he is refusing to do so, so he lied.

It isn't an excuse; it was something he said.

I personally don't care whether he does. It is not required by law.

But you asked for "Examples where you can prove or reasonably say there was intent to deceive?"

And I was giving you an example, so you admit that he lied to everyone

"Donald Trump on Wednesday afternoon said he didn't tell the Associated Press that he wouldn't release his tax returns before November.

The presumptive GOP nominee said he told the AP that he would release them once the audit of his returns is complete."

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/donald-trump-wont-rele...

The statement conditional on HRC's bleach-bitted e-mails and this one are the only two I am aware of from Trump.

Is the audit complete? Can't say I know or care.

CBS is FAKE NEWS and an 'enemy of the American people'

[jjlynn27]

Finlandia said:

The mess Sweden is in.

I'm curious, but why do you live in Sweden? You complain quite a lot about Sweden, yet you choose to live there. Why not live somewhere else more to your liking?
I'm an immigrant too (well not if one of my passports is to be believed), if I thought that UK is a 'mess' I'd find somewhere else to live.