How do we think EU negotiations will go?

[Jockman]

mx5nut said:

Have we taken back control yet?

Isn't that called a negotiation?

[vonuber]

Russia Today?

[Not-The-Messiah]

mx5nut said:

JagLover said:

mx5nut said:

Have we taken back control yet?

Its amazing such a clown is taken seriously as a journalist.

Murph7355 said:

And you're getting excited about what The Sun and Express say?

So from this thread - that's The BBC, The Guardian, The Sun, The Express and Sky News that we're not allowed to trust as news sources on Brexit.

Maybe it would be easier for some of the Brexiteers here to tell us what sources they will accept as sources of news?

It's not the news it's the analysis and interpretation and the way they present it that can't be trusted.

Anything bad= it's because of Brexit, they make it sound as bad as they can and shout it as loud as they can.
Anything good= It has nothing to do with Brexit , they make it sound like its one-off fluke and bury it in the back pages.

Places like the BBC ,sky news are full of pro EU supports. They cannot be trusted to give a fair and balanced opinion and don't do.

[ORD]

Blimey. Leavers are starting to sound like Trump supporters.

I will say this, though: a lot of the negative press is a bit silly. Anyone sensible knows that the economy is heading for a very bad time, but it's just silly to point to every piece of bad news and say 'Brexit did that'. It's even sillier to point to every piece of good news and say 'Brexit did that'.

Brexit hasn't happened yet - the uncertainty is doing some harm, of course, but the real effects (negative and, in strict theory although I cannot think of any, positive) will come in a year or two or three or four.

[Eddie Strohacker]

Not-The-Messiah said:

It's not the news it's the analysis and interpretation and the way they present it that can't be trusted.

Anything bad= it's because of Brexit, they make it sound as bad as they can and shout it as loud as they can.
Anything good= It has nothing to do with Brexit , they make it sound like its one-off fluke and bury it in the back pages.

Places like the BBC ,sky news are full of pro EU supports. They cannot be trusted to give a fair and balanced opinion and don't do.

Swivel eyed nonsense. Faisal Islam has enjoyed a distinguished career as Channel four's economics editor & Sky's political editor, winning multiple awards. Same old daily Brexcuses every day from the same wibble squad clown shoes. Don't like the tune? Shoot the piano player.

[Jockman]

I don't think the MSM really expected Brexit, Nor most other people tbh.

The Guardian, the Independent, the Mirror and the Mail on Sunday were the only ones IIRC pushing a Remain agenda.

Then MSM views on Trump were ignored.

Then MSM views on Corbyn were ignored.

Social Media seems to be the way forward (unfortunately, at this moment in time).

[ORD]

Jockman said:

I don't think the MSM really expected Brexit, Nor most other people tbh.

The Guardian, the Independent, the Mirror and the Mail on Sunday were the only ones IIRC pushing a Remain agenda.

Then MSM views on Trump were ignored.

Then MSM views on Corbyn were ignored.

Social Media seems to be the way forward (unfortunately, at this moment in time).

I agree. But you can substitute the word 'stupid people' for 'social media' and the point almost always stands.

Stupid people are behind Corbyn.

Stupid people explains Trump's victory.

Stupid people are full of celebrity stories and fake news.

Soundbite arguments of 140 characters or fewer work on stupid people.

Virtue signalling works well on stupid people.

[Digga]

Already posted by another PHer, this piece shows a very interesting idea and take on the situation from Germany:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/20/stop-br...

[jjlynn27]

Digga said:

Already posted by another PHer, this piece shows a very interesting idea and take on the situation from Germany:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/20/stop-br...

It's not an 'interesting' take. It's a view from the most eurosceptic German MEP H.O. Henkel, telegraph's go to guy for anything brexit related. Old news, rehashed.

[Murph7355]

mx5nut said:

So from this thread - that's The BBC, The Guardian, The Sun, The Express and Sky News that we're not allowed to trust as news sources on Brexit.

Maybe it would be easier for some of the Brexiteers here to tell us what sources they will accept as sources of news?

Trust who you want. The reverse to your comment applies equally to a small number of you on here - anything bad is all the fault of Brexit. Anything good despite it. No positive sources are to be trusted.

Expecting EU agencies to stay here was daft, no matter who said it. Is that a major issue for us? I don't think so. Is setting up our own equivalents a problem? I don't think so. YMMV.

Brexit's happening. The truth of the outcomes will be between the two extremes. We will all wake up on 20th March. Some happier than others. Just as they were on 18th. Just as they were on 22nd June 2016, in 92, in 75 and in 73.

Nothing material will have changed. No one is predicting you will have less money on the 20th than you did on the 18th (and any objective person would look at the track record of those making predictions and question them anyway - watch the Mark Blyth link jsf posted). Only that you *might* have a bit less money on the 20th than you might have had we taken a different choice. That sort of prediction is so multifaceted that it's pointless for anything other than political bickering.

I'm comfortable with the positioning on the negotiations more or less as I never expected anything different to happen.

I'm less comfortable with May as our leader and the reports on extending the monetary offer are concerning as I think it's too early to do that without a substantive basis for any increase. And she seems to excel at weakening her own position. But they've said the amounts are not being discussed right now so it seems ALL the media are simply fishing.

Some manner of deal will be struck. I am certain of that. But if it isn't, my head's not about to fall off either. Yours probably will. But that's totally within your control.

[hyphen]

JagLover said:

mx5nut said:

Have we taken back control yet?

Its amazing such a clown is taken seriously as a journalist.

+1

[hyphen]

Goldmand boss is now coming across as a bit of a joke

After making all that fuss on Twitter about the lovely weather in Frankfurt, he has now decided on Paris as the preferred option.

https://www.ft.com/content/f7397d3c-ce03-11e7-b781...

[jjlynn27]

Yes, anyone who doesn't think that Brexit is the best thing ever is a clown.

[ORD]

Murph7355 said:

Nothing material will have changed. No one is predicting you will have less money on the 20th than you did on the 18th (and any objective person would look at the track record of those making predictions and question them anyway - watch the Mark Blyth link jsf posted). Only that you *might* have a bit less money on the 20th than you might have had we taken a different choice. That sort of prediction is so multifaceted that it's pointless for anything other than political bickering.

I find this attitude very troubling. You seem to think that making predictions is not a genuine or useful activity.

If that is right, why not vote for the Labour Party? Presumably because you predict that a spend-happy Corbyn administration would cause a run on the pound and hurt the economy. If so, is that not predicting the economic effects of anticipated policies? Why is that different?

[Digga]

ORD said:

I find this attitude very troubling. You seem to think that making predictions is not a genuine or useful activity.

You really need to watch or, better yet, read some of what the likes of Mark Blyth and also Nassim Nicholas Taleb say about economic 'experts' before you commit yourself on this issue. the facts are pretty damning.

[Fittster]

Digga said:

ORD said:

I find this attitude very troubling. You seem to think that making predictions is not a genuine or useful activity.

You really need to watch or, better yet, read some of what the likes of Mark Blyth and also Nassim Nicholas Taleb say about economic 'experts' before you commit yourself on this issue. the facts are pretty damning.

Brexit lot still think exprts = bad?

Do right wing columnists = good?

There's only one true source of knowledge and his name is Paul Dacre.

[ORD]

Digga said:

ou really need to watch or, better yet, read some of what the likes of Mark Blyth and also Nassim Nicholas Taleb say about economic 'experts' before you commit yourself on this issue. the facts are pretty damning.

I work with expert economists all the time and have read things from Blyth and Taleb. Neither says 'Throw your hands up and just be reckless'. There are trillions of hours and billions of pounds worth of expertise involved in predicting the effects of policies on wealth generation, productivity, etc.

It is an imperfect science. But saying 'Ignore it all' is to embrace the Trumpian world where assertion is the only form of argument that matters.

[sidicks]

Fittster said:

Brexit lot still think exprts = bad?

Do right wing columnists = good?

There's only one true source of knowledge and his name is Paul Dacre.

No.

HTH

[Digga]

Fittster said:

Digga said:

ORD said:

I find this attitude very troubling. You seem to think that making predictions is not a genuine or useful activity.

You really need to watch or, better yet, read some of what the likes of Mark Blyth and also Nassim Nicholas Taleb say about economic 'experts' before you commit yourself on this issue. the facts are pretty damning.

Brexit lot still think exprts = bad?

Do right wing columnists = good?

There's only one true source of knowledge and his name is Paul Dacre.

Clearly, you have not read either, or if you have, not properly.

To be clear, experts are not all bad, asking experts to make (reliable and usable) predictions is the folly.

[Eddie Strohacker]

Was Fittster not kidding?

Just me then?