Boris Johnson-Prime Minister (Vol 8)
Discussion
paulrockliffe said:
Hands have been massively over-played on this. If they'd played it straight they might have got rid of him today, instead most people aren't interested, Sir Beer Korma has entered Hansard and Johnson has got away with it. Whatever it was. There's some lessons in there for everyone.
I think Blackford may be doing a parody of Blackford right now.
I tend to agree.I think Blackford may be doing a parody of Blackford right now.
Made harder as the moral high ground was lost.
b
hstewie said:
hstewie said: .....
Not sure how that st squares with the play act that he's sorry and has learned from this.
On the "learning" front, the report does seem to suggest that has happened/is happening. Not sure how that s
t squares with the play act that he's sorry and has learned from this.Garvin said:
The eagerly anticipated Sue Gray report is proving something of an anti-climax and damp squib. There is really nothing new in it. The challenges in the HoC and calls for resignation are limited to previously known information rather than new killer relevations in the report and are reduced to desperate pleading with the Conservative MPs to submit more letters of non confidence. I’m beginning to suspect that, almost unbelievably, Boris is going to survive this!
Have you read it? I don't agree at all, it clearly shows that:No. 10 was doing things it knew to be wrong (and covering it up).
BJ was at a party on 13 November 2020 which he previously denied. Photographs clearly show that it was not a work event, there is a lot of alcohol and he has a drink in his hand.
There were several rule breaking events that were allowed to go ahead by senior members of No. 10 and were not stopped, including BJ.
In a normal world, this would be the end of the PM. In this world, people still want to gaslight the public into pretending the obvious is not correct.
Garvin said:
The eagerly anticipated Sue Gray report is proving something of an anti-climax and damp squib. There is really nothing new in it. The challenges in the HoC and calls for resignation are limited to previously known information rather than new killer relevations in the report and are reduced to desperate pleading with the Conservative MPs to submit more letters of non confidence. I’m beginning to suspect that, almost unbelievably, Boris is going to survive this!
You can survive quite a lot if you have no integrity and simply refuse to go.It's been said before that our political system was designed for people like Profumo (not old enough so before anyone picks me up on it my point is one of recognising when you've done wrong and doing the right thing) rather than the likes of Johnson.
If he had any integrity or decency he'd have gone already.
bhstewie said:
hstewie said:Byker28i said:
Why are the photos redacted apart from Boris. Why aren't the people in those photos identifiable.
Because Gray determined it was appropriate to identify Ministers and senior officials.Tend to agree that it's not fair to identify junior civil servants some of whom were doing what their bosses had asked them to do and who were fined for attending events their bosses organised and Johnson attended whilst he smirks and tells everyone he thought he was at a work event.
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: You can survive quite a lot if you have no integrity and simply refuse to go.
It's been said before that our political system was designed for people like Profumo (not old enough so before anyone picks me up on it my point is one of recognising when you've done wrong and doing the right thing) rather than the likes of Johnson.
If he had any integrity or decency he'd have gone already.
If only you had a similar obsession with seeing Sturgeon toppled for the carnage she has foisted upon the Scots. It's been said before that our political system was designed for people like Profumo (not old enough so before anyone picks me up on it my point is one of recognising when you've done wrong and doing the right thing) rather than the likes of Johnson.
If he had any integrity or decency he'd have gone already.
It appears that the multitudes who are desperate to see Labour back in power just can't see that if there was a major focus by the UK media on seriously investigating and opening the books on the stupendously corrupt administration north of the border the resultant swing to Labour could well be epic.
AW111 said:
Where's turbobloke?
It's a bit poor leaving the "defend Boris at all costs" to Murph and Bandit.
They are doing such a good job there is no need for us others to join in. Now it is all over the Government can carry on with all the other good things they are doing...It's a bit poor leaving the "defend Boris at all costs" to Murph and Bandit.
Well until it is Starmers turn anyway.
What will be interesting is what the tory party, and particularly the MPs, will do now.
He's left a wide, gaping hole for other parties to attack in the next GE.
He's got many problems in the coming months and, despite the overwhelming tory majority in the Commons, he might well have trouble getting legislation through as the whips might well be hobbled a bit by all this.
The Gray report will not be the final straw as all it has done is explain what everyone already knew and believed. Having stroppy MPs, on the other hand, is much more damaging. The libdems and labour, let alone the regional parties, must be loving the whole thing. If he doesn't go, they will go in for the kill before the next GE. If he does go, whoever replaces him will probably be damaged by what they said when questioned about the lies and deceit.
Has the lovable clown lost too much shine?
He's left a wide, gaping hole for other parties to attack in the next GE.
He's got many problems in the coming months and, despite the overwhelming tory majority in the Commons, he might well have trouble getting legislation through as the whips might well be hobbled a bit by all this.
The Gray report will not be the final straw as all it has done is explain what everyone already knew and believed. Having stroppy MPs, on the other hand, is much more damaging. The libdems and labour, let alone the regional parties, must be loving the whole thing. If he doesn't go, they will go in for the kill before the next GE. If he does go, whoever replaces him will probably be damaged by what they said when questioned about the lies and deceit.
Has the lovable clown lost too much shine?
Derek Smith said:
What will be interesting is what the tory party, and particularly the MPs, will do now.
He's left a wide, gaping hole for other parties to attack in the next GE.
He's got many problems in the coming months and, despite the overwhelming tory majority in the Commons, he might well have trouble getting legislation through as the whips might well be hobbled a bit by all this.
The Gray report will not be the final straw as all it has done is explain what everyone already knew and believed. Having stroppy MPs, on the other hand, is much more damaging. The libdems and labour, let alone the regional parties, must be loving the whole thing. If he doesn't go, they will go in for the kill before the next GE. If he does go, whoever replaces him will probably be damaged by what they said when questioned about the lies and deceit.
Has the lovable clown lost too much shine?
You think carrying on talking about this for the next 18 months is a winning strategy?He's left a wide, gaping hole for other parties to attack in the next GE.
He's got many problems in the coming months and, despite the overwhelming tory majority in the Commons, he might well have trouble getting legislation through as the whips might well be hobbled a bit by all this.
The Gray report will not be the final straw as all it has done is explain what everyone already knew and believed. Having stroppy MPs, on the other hand, is much more damaging. The libdems and labour, let alone the regional parties, must be loving the whole thing. If he doesn't go, they will go in for the kill before the next GE. If he does go, whoever replaces him will probably be damaged by what they said when questioned about the lies and deceit.
Has the lovable clown lost too much shine?
pghstochaj said:
Garvin said:
The eagerly anticipated Sue Gray report is proving something of an anti-climax and damp squib. There is really nothing new in it. The challenges in the HoC and calls for resignation are limited to previously known information rather than new killer relevations in the report and are reduced to desperate pleading with the Conservative MPs to submit more letters of non confidence. I’m beginning to suspect that, almost unbelievably, Boris is going to survive this!
Have you read it? I don't agree at all, it clearly shows that:No. 10 was doing things it knew to be wrong (and covering it up).
BJ was at a party on 13 November 2020 which he previously denied. Photographs clearly show that it was not a work event, there is a lot of alcohol and he has a drink in his hand.
There were several rule breaking events that were allowed to go ahead by senior members of No. 10 and were not stopped, including BJ.
In a normal world, this would be the end of the PM. In this world, people still want to gaslight the public into pretending the obvious is not correct.
paulrockliffe said:
You think carrying on talking about this for the next 18 months is a winning strategy?
It's not even close.The opposition need to focus on the economy. They need to be building that case, both by looking at what is wrong and, most importantly, building a suite of policies of their own.
Problem is with that, they have nothing to give. Which is why all their energy, what little we've seen, has been on this.
I don't see Johnson going right now as I doubt there are enough Tories submitting letters. The local elections weren't the fatal shot, and nor will this be.
The real question is, does Johnson have the smarts to get a good enough team together now to show material improvement on the important stuff?
On current evidence, I'd say no.
Garvin said:
pghstochaj said:
Garvin said:
The eagerly anticipated Sue Gray report is proving something of an anti-climax and damp squib. There is really nothing new in it. The challenges in the HoC and calls for resignation are limited to previously known information rather than new killer relevations in the report and are reduced to desperate pleading with the Conservative MPs to submit more letters of non confidence. I’m beginning to suspect that, almost unbelievably, Boris is going to survive this!
Have you read it? I don't agree at all, it clearly shows that:No. 10 was doing things it knew to be wrong (and covering it up).
BJ was at a party on 13 November 2020 which he previously denied. Photographs clearly show that it was not a work event, there is a lot of alcohol and he has a drink in his hand.
There were several rule breaking events that were allowed to go ahead by senior members of No. 10 and were not stopped, including BJ.
In a normal world, this would be the end of the PM. In this world, people still want to gaslight the public into pretending the obvious is not correct.
Pastor Of Muppets said:
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: You can survive quite a lot if you have no integrity and simply refuse to go.
It's been said before that our political system was designed for people like Profumo (not old enough so before anyone picks me up on it my point is one of recognising when you've done wrong and doing the right thing) rather than the likes of Johnson.
If he had any integrity or decency he'd have gone already.
If only you had a similar obsession with seeing Sturgeon toppled for the carnage she has foisted upon the Scots. It's been said before that our political system was designed for people like Profumo (not old enough so before anyone picks me up on it my point is one of recognising when you've done wrong and doing the right thing) rather than the likes of Johnson.
If he had any integrity or decency he'd have gone already.
It appears that the multitudes who are desperate to see Labour back in power just can't see that if there was a major focus by the UK media on seriously investigating and opening the books on the stupendously corrupt administration north of the border the resultant swing to Labour could well be epic.
As for being "desperate to see Labour back in power" I've never voted for them in my life I just won't excuse the contempt this lot have shown for the office and for the public with "but Labour" or "but Sturgeon".
bhstewie said:
hstewie said:Garvin said:
The eagerly anticipated Sue Gray report is proving something of an anti-climax and damp squib. There is really nothing new in it. The challenges in the HoC and calls for resignation are limited to previously known information rather than new killer relevations in the report and are reduced to desperate pleading with the Conservative MPs to submit more letters of non confidence. I’m beginning to suspect that, almost unbelievably, Boris is going to survive this!
You can survive quite a lot if you have no integrity and simply refuse to go.It's been said before that our political system was designed for people like Profumo (not old enough so before anyone picks me up on it my point is one of recognising when you've done wrong and doing the right thing) rather than the likes of Johnson.
If he had any integrity or decency he'd have gone already.
Sir Beer Korma
did well at PMQs this morning, possibly for the first time, laying into Boris and the government, quite rightly, on cost of living, inflation, energy etc - these are the issues that will finally do for Boris . . . eventually.We can have a great debate about Profumo. Be clear, he only resigned because he was caught (with his trousers down) and the party got rid of him. Lots of dedication to charitable work afterwards . . . but was that contrition or just trying to remain accepted in his ‘circles’?
Nothing really seems to have come to light today that was unknown, except perhaps the lack of control management - civil and political - in Downing Street had on the junior ranks - Seriously what were they thinking? Did they think it would all remain a secret? Nothing to harm BJ any more, other than the ongoing pathetic spectacle of the leader of the 6th largest economy in the world begging, yet again, for forgiveness. And he will do it one more time, when the Committee of Privileges convenes to decide (through the Tory majority sitting on it) that yes he lied to Parliament, but that he didn't mean it. Then it is down to the Tory MPs to decide whether to ditch him in the summer, and get a fresh warm body in place to establish before the next election - After that it will likely be too late. I doubt there are enough with a spine robust enough to write a letter, so hell mend them - they deserve each other.
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