Nigel Farage Launches New Brexit Party.
Discussion
Murph7355 said:
None of which really matters here and now.
The EU elections will mainly be "protest" related around Brexit I suspect.
If TBP do well and if the two main parties/the HoC fail to get past the impasse or sign up to something generally unwanted, THEN this stuff becomes important.
TBP have a few months minimum to organise.
IMO it wouldn't be too hard to create acceptable approaches on key policy areas.
Brexit/the EU will be one for some time. Incl. trade policy, immigration, weeding through the adopted rulebooks etc - ie hitting on the topics that influenced the vote to generate a case for keeping this that way.
The NHS, policing and education are probably next. With those covered sensibly, they could be a GE force.
Much water to go under the bridge... Continued fun times
Very balanced post, respect to you. Farage has already stated they will scrap HS2 if they were in power, which, for me as a massive HS2 hater, is a very good start. But I will need to look at the rest of the manifesto for the GE before committing, especially as I'm traditionally a Labour voter (never voted Tory or Ukip previously) but always been massively Eurosceptic . But the EU is basically a single issue election so Farage gets my vote here. They say imitation is the best form of flattery hence the LibDems now being a one issue party. And, on a side note, could you imagine the furore if TBP adopted a slogan like 'B******* To Remain' as a campaign slogan????The EU elections will mainly be "protest" related around Brexit I suspect.
If TBP do well and if the two main parties/the HoC fail to get past the impasse or sign up to something generally unwanted, THEN this stuff becomes important.
TBP have a few months minimum to organise.
IMO it wouldn't be too hard to create acceptable approaches on key policy areas.
Brexit/the EU will be one for some time. Incl. trade policy, immigration, weeding through the adopted rulebooks etc - ie hitting on the topics that influenced the vote to generate a case for keeping this that way.
The NHS, policing and education are probably next. With those covered sensibly, they could be a GE force.
Much water to go under the bridge... Continued fun times
Edited by Cohen123 on Wednesday 15th May 12:17
amusingduck said:
techiedave's posts are predominantly satire/tongue in cheek - best to learn now before you start taking his lustful Diane Abbott posts seriously 
Thanks for the heads up. One thing Tim Berners-Lee never envisioned, I suspect, is how poor the internet is at displaying satire/sarcasm/irony. 
PS Lustful Diane Abbott posts? Oh Lord, I guess I've got them to come.
Cohen123 said:
Thanks for the heads up. One thing Tim Berners-Lee never envisioned, I suspect, is how poor the internet is at displaying satire/sarcasm/irony.
PS Lustful Diane Abbott posts? Oh Lord, I guess I've got them to come.
probably best to give them a miss if you have a delicate nature.PS Lustful Diane Abbott posts? Oh Lord, I guess I've got them to come.
Sway said:
amusingduck said:
techiedave's posts are predominantly satire/tongue in cheek - best to learn now before you start taking his lustful Diane Abbott posts seriously
Yep. Techie is the acceptable face of Rod Rammage.
Digga said:
Sway said:
amusingduck said:
techiedave's posts are predominantly satire/tongue in cheek - best to learn now before you start taking his lustful Diane Abbott posts seriously
Yep. Techie is the acceptable face of Rod Rammage.
I do know RR is still posting elsewhere.
steveT350C said:
Absolutely extraordinary considering the party started from scratch only 4 weeks ago! By contrast how many members has cock UK got in the same amount of time?Did Theresa the appeaser think that because UKIP had died Nigel Farage would simply disappear....?! He's going to absolutely wipe the floor with these mugs!
TTwiggy said:
Mark Benson said:
My problem is that I rarely find anyone worth voting for, in any party.
I despise the rise of the professional politician - get a PPE or law degree, graduate into working for a party, become an MP, become junior minister for something you have no understanding or experience of, then if you manage to please the leadership become minister for something you have no understanding or experience of.
Result: Politicians with no empathy or understanding of the people they think they represent.
Outcome: A large number of people jump at the chance to vote for someone more like themselves.
I have no liking for Farage, but what he's doing with the Brexit party - bringing in people from outside of politics to stand as candidates is the antidote to the above. The only thing stopping more people voting for them I suspect is Farage himself.
Has it ever been any different though? Politicians have been 'careerists' for a long time. I think the difference now is that the game is all about getting elected and then staying in power. So they flip-flop with public opinion (or what they believe is public opinion). We used to have politicians who would put the country first (granted, based on their vision) and try to build things that might take decades to come to fruition. I despise the rise of the professional politician - get a PPE or law degree, graduate into working for a party, become an MP, become junior minister for something you have no understanding or experience of, then if you manage to please the leadership become minister for something you have no understanding or experience of.
Result: Politicians with no empathy or understanding of the people they think they represent.
Outcome: A large number of people jump at the chance to vote for someone more like themselves.
I have no liking for Farage, but what he's doing with the Brexit party - bringing in people from outside of politics to stand as candidates is the antidote to the above. The only thing stopping more people voting for them I suspect is Farage himself.
'Men of the people', like Farage, are not the answer IMHO. He's not there to build a better future, he just wants power - like the rest of them.
Every decision is polled and focus grouped (and now I suspect the Twitter echo-chamber gets heavily used) so it causes the least offence to the fewest people.
Governments have no vision because they only see as far as the next election. And when we do attempt large infrastructure projects, we get it completely wrong - does anyone outside of Westminster think HS2 is a good idea?
We should be led by people with more life-experience than just politics - It's a simplification but Labour used to recruit out of the Trade Unions, Conservatives from business and their MPs better knew what life was like for the people they represented.
amgmcqueen said:
steveT350C said:
Absolutely extraordinary considering the party started from scratch only 4 weeks ago! By contrast how many members has cock UK got in the same amount of time?Did Theresa the appeaser think that because UKIP had died Nigel Farage would simply disappear....?! He's going to absolutely wipe the floor with these mugs!
amgmcqueen said:
Did Theresa the appeaser think that because UKIP had died Nigel Farage would simply disappear....?! He's going to absolutely wipe the floor with these mugs!
All she’s worried about is getting the lightest brexit possible passed. She’s already said she’s going after it gets agreed.All the main parties are worried about is the GE. Farage has failed 7 times to win a seat. I know he holds influence but he’s a long way from being a threat in any meaningful way.
El stovey said:
All she’s worried about is getting the lightest brexit possible passed. She’s already said she’s going after it gets agreed.
All the main parties are worried about is the GE. Farage has failed 7 times to win a seat. I know he holds influence but he’s a long way from being a threat in any meaningful way.
I get what you are saying but 2 things to bear in mind.All the main parties are worried about is the GE. Farage has failed 7 times to win a seat. I know he holds influence but he’s a long way from being a threat in any meaningful way.
1. These are very very different political times to all his previous attempts (plus he was sort of 'cheated' out of South Thanet in 2015 anyway)
2. The Brexit Party is more professional an outfit than UKip by many magnitudes. So well organised, so slick, so effective. And Farage seems way more professional/dedicated/focused too.
Of course it will all depend on what happens after the EU elections and what sort of manifesto TBP come up with (and then I will decide what I will do voting wise). But it would be foolish to underestimate a party barely a month old with over 100,000 fee paying members (25 quid each), holding rallies where up to 2000 people attend on a regular basis and one which is already riding so high in the polls.
Edited by Cohen123 on Wednesday 15th May 13:27
Edited by Cohen123 on Wednesday 15th May 13:28
Edited by Cohen123 on Wednesday 15th May 13:29
Edited by Cohen123 on Wednesday 15th May 13:34
Edited by Cohen123 on Wednesday 15th May 13:35
TTwiggy said:
No, I think we've got one of the sorriest collections of representatives in history in Parliament right now. I just don't think that snake oil salesmen like Nige (other opinions are available) are the answer.
My personal view is that if people could somehow look beyond the traditional approach of voting along party lines and actually putting a tick next to the person they feel will do the best job of representing them then we might see an uplift in quality.
Agreed to a point. However it's a classic asymmetric game, where if we elect 600 MPs who are independent minded, unbound by party loyalties and determined to act in the best interests of their constituents, then we vote in 50 sMy personal view is that if people could somehow look beyond the traditional approach of voting along party lines and actually putting a tick next to the person they feel will do the best job of representing them then we might see an uplift in quality.
t bags who act as a group to look after their own interests then the coordinated group will wield more power, and we'll still get screwed. The decent minded MPs will then have to join and try to influence from within, risking compromising their own integrity or form their own alliances which will also involve compromising their true beliefs to achieve a wider goal.So you end up somewhere in between.
Breaking the current duopoly won't deliver Utopia but it might deliver what we voted for, warts and all, and make our politics a bit more honest into the bargain.
Mark Benson said:
We should be led by people with more life-experience than just politics - It's a simplification but Labour used to recruit out of the Trade Unions, Conservatives from business and their MPs better knew what life was like for the people they represented.
We'll have to pay them an awful lot more then, as an MP's salary is loose change to a CEO or CFO of even a medium sized company. If the public largely view them as the 'Westminster elite' now, what will they think of them if we start paying them circa £500k a year?Mark Benson said:
Governments have no vision because they only see as far as the next election. And when we do attempt large infrastructure projects, we get it completely wrong - does anyone outside of Westminster think HS2 is a good idea?
IIRC HS2 is actually part of the plan for a greater pan-European HS rail net-work and is pretty much an EU requirement?TTwiggy said:
Mark Benson said:
We should be led by people with more life-experience than just politics - It's a simplification but Labour used to recruit out of the Trade Unions, Conservatives from business and their MPs better knew what life was like for the people they represented.
We'll have to pay them an awful lot more then, as an MP's salary is loose change to a CEO or CFO of even a medium sized company. If the public largely view them as the 'Westminster elite' now, what will they think of them if we start paying them circa £500k a year?There’s far too many MPs at the moment, Maybe half the amount and double the salary and severely limit what they can be involved in outside parliamentary work.
Anyone doing it at the moment is supplementing their income with all sorts of other things taking attention away from their job.
El stovey said:
Seems odd that those running the country are paid so little.
There’s far too many MPs at the moment, Maybe half the amount and double the salary and severely limit what they can be involved in outside parliamentary work.
Anyone doing it at the moment is supplementing their income with all sorts of other things taking attention away from their job.
Or they are independently wealthy (like 'people's champion' JRM) and as such will never 'suffer' from the decisions they make.There’s far too many MPs at the moment, Maybe half the amount and double the salary and severely limit what they can be involved in outside parliamentary work.
Anyone doing it at the moment is supplementing their income with all sorts of other things taking attention away from their job.
I don't know what the answer is really. A current popular complaint is that they are 'career politicians' , as if that hasn't always been the case. Saying that we want 'business people' isn't (IMHO) the answer either, as an ability to generate profit isn't really a prime qualification for running a country.
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