Nigel Farage Launches New Brexit Party.

[Mark Benson]

TTwiggy said:

El stovey said:

Seems odd that those running the country are paid so little.

There’s far too many MPs at the moment, Maybe half the amount and double the salary and severely limit what they can be involved in outside parliamentary work.

Anyone doing it at the moment is supplementing their income with all sorts of other things taking attention away from their job.

Or they are independently wealthy (like 'people's champion' JRM) and as such will never 'suffer' from the decisions they make.

I don't know what the answer is really. A current popular complaint is that they are 'career politicians' , as if that hasn't always been the case. Saying that we want 'business people' isn't (IMHO) the answer either, as an ability to generate profit isn't really a prime qualification for running a country.

I want people with experience outside politics.
No matter how many times you say it, Westminster hasn't always been almost exclusively MPs with PPEs and a life inside the bubble - given there have always been some, but nothing like it is currently.
I'd like to see some business people, also doctors, bin men, engineers, military personnel etc. etc. What they've previously done is only relevant in as far as they should be given portfolios with some relation to their experience, which would then lessen the reliance on civil servants and advisors who also have spent their life inside Westminster.

MPs should be prevented from acting as lobbyists once they leave the house, too.

[TTwiggy]

Mark Benson said:

I want people with experience outside politics.
No matter how many times you say it, Westminster hasn't always been almost exclusively MPs with PPEs and a life inside the bubble - given there have always been some, but nothing like it is currently.
I'd like to see some business people, also doctors, bin men, engineers, military personnel etc. etc. What they've previously done is only relevant in as far as they should be given portfolios with some relation to their experience, which would then lessen the reliance on civil servants and advisors who also have spent their life inside Westminster.

MPs should be prevented from acting as lobbyists once they leave the house, too.

With (genuine) respect, that just reads like a take on the popular 'we don't need experts' view that is currently du jour. I'm far from impressed by our current collection of MPs but I disagree that a band of 'plucky amateurs' is the answer. I want (all) jobs to be done by people who know how to do that job, which includes politics. I don't want a ex soldier deciding foreign policy or a former policeman as home secretary, they'd be too 'involved' to see the bigger picture.

[AshVX220]

Is one way ahead to ban the whip? If I understand correctly the whip is to ensure that in the main MP's vote along the accepted party line (is that right?). If so, by banning the whip MP's should be free to vote on maters aligned with their own views and those of their constituents.

Or do I have the whole point of the whip wrong?

[WCNFSL117]

El stovey said:

All she’s worried about is getting the lightest brexit possible passed. She’s already said she’s going after it gets agreed.

All the main parties are worried about is the GE. Farage has failed 7 times to win a seat. I know he holds influence but he’s a long way from being a threat in any meaningful way.

Spot on

[Mark Benson]

TTwiggy said:

With (genuine) respect, that just reads like a take on the popular 'we don't need experts' view that is currently du jour. I'm far from impressed by our current collection of MPs but I disagree that a band of 'plucky amateurs' is the answer. I want (all) jobs to be done by people who know how to do that job, which includes politics. I don't want a ex soldier deciding foreign policy or a former policeman as home secretary, they'd be too 'involved' to see the bigger picture.

I'm advocating for experience, not a bunch of 'plucky amateurs'. I can't see that being an experienced politician is necessarilty a good qualification for, say, running defence, health or any of the major departments.

So explain this to me: how is Matt Hancock any more of an expert on health than, say a nurse, GP or a surgeon? The healthcare worker might be 'involved' but at least they work from a point of experience and has civil servants and junior ministers (and ultimately the PM) checking his work.

And if you're going to try to sell me the idea that being an MP is such a specialised job that can only be effectively done by someone with a PPE from Oxford and a decade as an advisor to a party, how on earth did we manage before?

[crankedup]

alfie2244 said:

Piha said:

steveT350C said:

Now over 100,000 members,

https://order-order.com/2019/05/15/brexit-party-so...

Although questions are being raised about the alleged membership numbers.

https://bylinetimes.com/2019/05/14/brexit-party-do...

Who the hell is Byline Times?

Nonetheless:

"UPDATE – THE BREXIT PARTY RESPONDS

The Brexit Party could not be more conscious of compliance issues, particularly around donations. Our system is clearly and specifically designed for grassroots activists and supporters. The vast majority of our funding comes from ordinary individuals who give small sums.

We hope Byline is expending as much time and energy investigating theoretical flaws in the operating systems of other political parties, and look forward to seeing the results of these inquiries.

Any actual evidence of anyone using our system to deliberately commit fraud will be dealt with swiftly and appropriately. For the time being, your investigation exposes nothing more than your bewilderment at the scale of voter support for the Brexit Party – and your determination to present it in the worst possible light."

Odd isn’t it that success always leads to cynicism in the U.K., and yet across the pond it’s applauded.,

[TeamD]

crankedup said:

Odd isn’t it that success always leads to cynicism in the U.K., and yet across the pond it’s applauded.,

I refer you to the politics of envy thread, it's the socialist way.

[Borghetto]

And then she said:

Just over 0.5% of the magic 17.4M, little more than a rounding error.

Yep, just a rounding error, only they've each kicked in £25. Perhaps you can show the number of members other parties have as a percentage of the votes they garnered. Of course don't add the trade unions, as they rarely reflect their members views when dabling in politics.

[Cohen123]

TeamD said:

I refer you to the politics of envy thread, it's the socialist way.

It's weird, I'm traditionally a Labour voter (my father was so left wing he often got accused of being a Communist which he really wasn't) but one thing that has always disgusted me is some of my fellow voters are so jealous of success whereas i never have been.I guess that's one of the reasons why the Labour Party is the party they chose. It's sort of good to be out of that negative vibe...we'll see where TBP goes and if I can support them going forward.

[TTwiggy]

crankedup said:

Odd isn’t it that success always leads to cynicism in the U.K., and yet across the pond it’s applauded.,

But that's not the case here. Regardless of any success he may have had, Farage is a divisive character (among many Leavers too), so any cynicism is a result of his personality, not his achievements.

[crankedup]

Cohen123 said:

TeamD said:

I refer you to the politics of envy thread, it's the socialist way.

It's weird, I'm traditionally a Labour voter (my father was so left wing he often got accused of being a Communist which he really wasn't) but one thing that has always disgusted me is some of my fellow voters are so jealous of success whereas i never have been.I guess that's one of the reasons why the Labour Party is the party they chose. It's sort of good to be out of that negative vibe...we'll see where TBP goes and if I can support them going forward.

For years I have been outspoken regarding the ever increasing wealth gap in the U.K. CEO pay is now 145x average pay which is way out of kilter for a balanced Socially acceptable situation. This is adding to the increase in dissatisfaction amongst the ordinary people who have seen their wages stagnate over the past decade.
Some see this as politics of envy, not much I can do about that except mention the growing dissatisfaction in Europe, much caused by the fundamentally same issues, support for the wealthy global businesses whilst ignoring the people at or near the bottom of the pile. Sooner or later these policies have a habit of biting back, I believe that is where we and our European friends are at the moment. Throw in discontentment around policies of the EU for a full house.
ps I don’t vote labour.

[768]

TTwiggy said:

Mark Benson said:

I want people with experience outside politics.
No matter how many times you say it, Westminster hasn't always been almost exclusively MPs with PPEs and a life inside the bubble - given there have always been some, but nothing like it is currently.
I'd like to see some business people, also doctors, bin men, engineers, military personnel etc. etc. What they've previously done is only relevant in as far as they should be given portfolios with some relation to their experience, which would then lessen the reliance on civil servants and advisors who also have spent their life inside Westminster.

MPs should be prevented from acting as lobbyists once they leave the house, too.

With (genuine) respect, that just reads like a take on the popular 'we don't need experts' view that is currently du jour. I'm far from impressed by our current collection of MPs but I disagree that a band of 'plucky amateurs' is the answer. I want (all) jobs to be done by people who know how to do that job, which includes politics. I don't want a ex soldier deciding foreign policy or a former policeman as home secretary, they'd be too 'involved' to see the bigger picture.

Yeah, because what we have, instead of people with experience, we have experts.

Like a shadow education secretary with no education.
Or a shadow home secretary who couldn't find her way home.
Or a secretary of state for housing who can't count the number of ovens in his kitchen.

At least Chris Grayling's transport secretary.

[crankedup]

TTwiggy said:

crankedup said:

Odd isn’t it that success always leads to cynicism in the U.K., and yet across the pond it’s applauded.,

But that's not the case here. Regardless of any success he may have had, Farage is a divisive character (among many Leavers too), so any cynicism is a result of his personality, not his achievements.

Play the game, not the man.

[Borghetto]

AshVX220 said:

Is one way ahead to ban the whip? If I understand correctly the whip is to ensure that in the main MP's vote along the accepted party line (is that right?). If so, by banning the whip MP's should be free to vote on maters aligned with their own views and those of their constituents.

Or do I have the whole point of the whip wrong?

Without the whip you could end up with "Pork Barrel" politics. Look at the US, they have whips but they are still held to ransom by Congressmen/Senators demanding goodies for their district/state. Politics will always be held ransom to politicians personal greed, ambition and deviousness.

[And then she]

Borghetto said:

And then she said:

Just over 0.5% of the magic 17.4M, little more than a rounding error.

Yep, just a rounding error, only they've each kicked in £25. Perhaps you can show the number of members other parties have as a percentage of the votes they garnered. Of course don't add the trade unions, as they rarely reflect their members views when dabling in politics.

I was, of course, being facetious, but in truth that £2.5M doesn't go very far - if they really want to continue going after the Euro elections they'll need some other funding sources.

[And then she]

Borghetto said:

Without the whip you could end up with "Pork Barrel" politics. Look at the US, they have whips but they are still held to ransom by Congressmen/Senators demanding goodies for their district/state. Politics will always be held ransom to politicians personal greed, ambition and deviousness.

c.f. Theresa May's sop to the DUP.

[TTwiggy]

crankedup said:

TTwiggy said:

crankedup said:

Odd isn’t it that success always leads to cynicism in the U.K., and yet across the pond it’s applauded.,

But that's not the case here. Regardless of any success he may have had, Farage is a divisive character (among many Leavers too), so any cynicism is a result of his personality, not his achievements.

Play the game, not the man.

That phrase doesn't apply here. I'm stating fact - many people (Remain & Leave) don't like Farage as a person.

[IrateNinja]

Cohen123 said:

2. The Brexit Party is more professional an outfit than UKip by many magnitudes. So well organised, so slick, so effective. And Farage seems way more professional/dedicated/focused too.

Hahahahahahahahaha.

[Squiddly Diddly]

TTwiggy said:

That phrase doesn't apply here. I'm stating fact - many people (Remain & Leave) don't like Farage as a person.

Isn't the thread about Farage?

[s2art]

TTwiggy said:

crankedup said:

TTwiggy said:

crankedup said:

Odd isn’t it that success always leads to cynicism in the U.K., and yet across the pond it’s applauded.,

But that's not the case here. Regardless of any success he may have had, Farage is a divisive character (among many Leavers too), so any cynicism is a result of his personality, not his achievements.

Play the game, not the man.

That phrase doesn't apply here. I'm stating fact - many people (Remain & Leave) don't like Farage as a person.

But thats true for just about any party leader. Why should Farage be any different.