Brexit - was it worth it? (Vol. 4)

[CivicDuties]

Wombat3 said:

CivicDuties said:

StevieBee said:

Murph7355 said:

It continues to baffle why a strong enough case could not be made to remain, rather than benefits in leaving. Doesn't it?

It's far easier and sexier to promote something that doesn't exist because you can make stuff up or bend the truth or avoid mentioning the likely reality.

Think of it like buying a new-build house before it's been built. The developer can create a wonderful CGi render of what it might look like. They may even build a show home and promise all manner of virtues which convinces you to buy one. But on the day you move in, you find that the build quality is shoddy, there's a motorway at the end of the garden that's smaller than was stated and the garage is too small for your car. On reflection, you realise that despite all it's faults, it would have been better to stay put and fix-up the house you had.

I think if we could beam back today's news about the effects of Brexit to early 2016 (i.e. not just today today, but in general what it's done to this country), then it'd be a pretty straightforward win for Remain.

And of course the supposed "project fear" predictions of Remainers have indeed materialised. I do need to point out, of course, that there was plenty of "project fear" in the Leave campaign - Turkey is joining, EU Army, Federalisation etc, none of which has in fact materialised, nor is likely to, 8 years after the vote. Remain has been pretty much entirely vindicated.

To deny this is to deny objective reality.

I don't think anyone would have believed how much effort would go into subverting, dumbing down or trying to derail / overturn the result (from within the UK) either.

It was honestly quite enlightening just how many people were on the "democracy is OK as long as I win" bandwagon.

That is demonstrably untrue, given that we were handed pretty much the hardest Brexit imaginable, short of going full "Let's Go WTO" nuttery. Most Leave voters, I'd suggest, got far more than they imagined. Many would have voted on the assumption that "Nobody's talking about threatening our place in the Single Market", because that's what Leave campaigners said. It was the Remain side who pointed out that by voting Leave we would be risking our place in the Single Market - and it was waved away as "Project Fear".

"Democracy is OK so long as I win" is indeed the cry of the Leave side now - those who would claim that the result of the 2016 referendum is sacrosanct and should never be examined. You lost get over it etc.

Your projection is breath taking.

[Wombat3]

CivicDuties said:

Wombat3 said:

CivicDuties said:

StevieBee said:

Murph7355 said:

It continues to baffle why a strong enough case could not be made to remain, rather than benefits in leaving. Doesn't it?

It's far easier and sexier to promote something that doesn't exist because you can make stuff up or bend the truth or avoid mentioning the likely reality.

Think of it like buying a new-build house before it's been built. The developer can create a wonderful CGi render of what it might look like. They may even build a show home and promise all manner of virtues which convinces you to buy one. But on the day you move in, you find that the build quality is shoddy, there's a motorway at the end of the garden that's smaller than was stated and the garage is too small for your car. On reflection, you realise that despite all it's faults, it would have been better to stay put and fix-up the house you had.

I think if we could beam back today's news about the effects of Brexit to early 2016 (i.e. not just today today, but in general what it's done to this country), then it'd be a pretty straightforward win for Remain.

And of course the supposed "project fear" predictions of Remainers have indeed materialised. I do need to point out, of course, that there was plenty of "project fear" in the Leave campaign - Turkey is joining, EU Army, Federalisation etc, none of which has in fact materialised, nor is likely to, 8 years after the vote. Remain has been pretty much entirely vindicated.

To deny this is to deny objective reality.

I don't think anyone would have believed how much effort would go into subverting, dumbing down or trying to derail / overturn the result (from within the UK) either.

It was honestly quite enlightening just how many people were on the "democracy is OK as long as I win" bandwagon.

That is demonstrably untrue, given that we were handed pretty much the hardest Brexit imaginable, short of going full "Let's Go WTO" nuttery. Most Leave voters, I'd suggest, got far more than they imagined. Many would have voted on the assumption that "Nobody's talking about threatening our place in the Single Market", because that's what Leave campaigners said. It was the Remain side who pointed out that by voting Leave we would be risking our place in the Single Market - and it was waved away as "Project Fear".

"Democracy is OK so long as I win" is indeed the cry of the Leave side now - those who would claim that the result of the 2016 referendum is sacrosanct and should never be examined. You lost get over it etc.

Your projection is breath taking.

I must have been watching something else 2016-19 then.....

[don'tbesilly]

Wombat3 said:

CivicDuties said:

Wombat3 said:

CivicDuties said:

StevieBee said:

Murph7355 said:

It continues to baffle why a strong enough case could not be made to remain, rather than benefits in leaving. Doesn't it?

It's far easier and sexier to promote something that doesn't exist because you can make stuff up or bend the truth or avoid mentioning the likely reality.

Think of it like buying a new-build house before it's been built. The developer can create a wonderful CGi render of what it might look like. They may even build a show home and promise all manner of virtues which convinces you to buy one. But on the day you move in, you find that the build quality is shoddy, there's a motorway at the end of the garden that's smaller than was stated and the garage is too small for your car. On reflection, you realise that despite all it's faults, it would have been better to stay put and fix-up the house you had.

I think if we could beam back today's news about the effects of Brexit to early 2016 (i.e. not just today today, but in general what it's done to this country), then it'd be a pretty straightforward win for Remain.

And of course the supposed "project fear" predictions of Remainers have indeed materialised. I do need to point out, of course, that there was plenty of "project fear" in the Leave campaign - Turkey is joining, EU Army, Federalisation etc, none of which has in fact materialised, nor is likely to, 8 years after the vote. Remain has been pretty much entirely vindicated.

To deny this is to deny objective reality.

I don't think anyone would have believed how much effort would go into subverting, dumbing down or trying to derail / overturn the result (from within the UK) either.

It was honestly quite enlightening just how many people were on the "democracy is OK as long as I win" bandwagon.

That is demonstrably untrue, given that we were handed pretty much the hardest Brexit imaginable, short of going full "Let's Go WTO" nuttery. Most Leave voters, I'd suggest, got far more than they imagined. Many would have voted on the assumption that "Nobody's talking about threatening our place in the Single Market", because that's what Leave campaigners said. It was the Remain side who pointed out that by voting Leave we would be risking our place in the Single Market - and it was waved away as "Project Fear".

"Democracy is OK so long as I win" is indeed the cry of the Leave side now - those who would claim that the result of the 2016 referendum is sacrosanct and should never be examined. You lost get over it etc.

Your projection is breath taking.

I must have been watching something else 2016-19 then.....

You weren’t, both Cameron (PM at the time) & Osbourne (CoE at the time) were quite vocal in telling the electorate that leaving the EU meant leaving the SM, there was no ambiguity from the Government & leaders of the Remain campaign about what a vote to leave meant, plenty of examples of such on YouTube (posted multiple times).

Talking of YouTube…comedy gold:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UHzmCHcM7cA&pp=y...

”demonstrably untrue”…

[Mortarboard]

Bless.

So now these policies/states can only exist "after royal assent for a referendum to take place has been given"

Chinny reckon.

M.

[Killboy]

crankedup5 said:

Yup, some called it a betrayal of the people.

Some called it reality.

[crankedup5]

Killboy said:

crankedup5 said:

Yup, some called it a betrayal of the people.

Some called it reality.

Yup, no argument from me on that, and I am content with the outcome.

[blueg33]

crankedup5 said:

Killboy said:

crankedup5 said:

Yup, some called it a betrayal of the people.

Some called it reality.

Yup, no argument from me on that, and I am content with the outcome.

Bully for you!

An outcome that has made things worse for most people.

[captain_cynic]

blueg33 said:

Bully for you!

An outcome that has made things worse for most people.

And so confident are that that it's the "will of the people" that we can never, ever, not ever until the heat death of the universe have another say on it. Ever.

[Spare tyre]

I ask every so often, but don’t think I’ve seen it yet.

When do I see the first benefit?

[croyde]

Spare tyre said:

I ask every so often, but don’t think I’ve seen it yet.

When do I see the first benefit?

I popped in to say the same.

Brexit has only brought up problems for myself and my kids. Not a single benefit yet, I'm still waiting.

Thankfully it spurred me on to get an Irish passport but unfortunately it doesn't extend to my kids, unless I start having more......which ain't going to happen.

On a personal level, being in Europe meant that my Mustang came with ridiculously ugly van like door mirrors unlike the svelte US OEM ones.

8 years on and Mustangs over here still have those oversized door mirrors

[crankedup5]

don'tbesilly said:

Wombat3 said:

CivicDuties said:

Wombat3 said:

CivicDuties said:

StevieBee said:

Murph7355 said:

It continues to baffle why a strong enough case could not be made to remain, rather than benefits in leaving. Doesn't it?

It's far easier and sexier to promote something that doesn't exist because you can make stuff up or bend the truth or avoid mentioning the likely reality.

Think of it like buying a new-build house before it's been built. The developer can create a wonderful CGi render of what it might look like. They may even build a show home and promise all manner of virtues which convinces you to buy one. But on the day you move in, you find that the build quality is shoddy, there's a motorway at the end of the garden that's smaller than was stated and the garage is too small for your car. On reflection, you realise that despite all it's faults, it would have been better to stay put and fix-up the house you had.

I think if we could beam back today's news about the effects of Brexit to early 2016 (i.e. not just today today, but in general what it's done to this country), then it'd be a pretty straightforward win for Remain.

And of course the supposed "project fear" predictions of Remainers have indeed materialised. I do need to point out, of course, that there was plenty of "project fear" in the Leave campaign - Turkey is joining, EU Army, Federalisation etc, none of which has in fact materialised, nor is likely to, 8 years after the vote. Remain has been pretty much entirely vindicated.

To deny this is to deny objective reality.

I don't think anyone would have believed how much effort would go into subverting, dumbing down or trying to derail / overturn the result (from within the UK) either.

It was honestly quite enlightening just how many people were on the "democracy is OK as long as I win" bandwagon.

That is demonstrably untrue, given that we were handed pretty much the hardest Brexit imaginable, short of going full "Let's Go WTO" nuttery. Most Leave voters, I'd suggest, got far more than they imagined. Many would have voted on the assumption that "Nobody's talking about threatening our place in the Single Market", because that's what Leave campaigners said. It was the Remain side who pointed out that by voting Leave we would be risking our place in the Single Market - and it was waved away as "Project Fear".

"Democracy is OK so long as I win" is indeed the cry of the Leave side now - those who would claim that the result of the 2016 referendum is sacrosanct and should never be examined. You lost get over it etc.

Your projection is breath taking.

I must have been watching something else 2016-19 then.....

You weren’t, both Cameron (PM at the time) & Osbourne (CoE at the time) were quite vocal in telling the electorate that leaving the EU meant leaving the SM, there was no ambiguity from the Government & leaders of the Remain campaign about what a vote to leave meant, plenty of examples of such on YouTube (posted multiple times).

Talking of YouTube…comedy gold:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UHzmCHcM7cA&pp=y...

”demonstrably untrue”…

Judging by the misrepresentation of the post, either a liar or idiot, more likely both. Well called dbs

[crankedup5]

blueg33 said:

crankedup5 said:

Killboy said:

crankedup5 said:

Yup, some called it a betrayal of the people.

Some called it reality.

Yup, no argument from me on that, and I am content with the outcome.

Bully for you!

An outcome that has made things worse for most people.

I always use my political vote seeking. what should be a beneficial outcome. I have never voted to knowingly place myself in a worse situation.
Worse in way for most people ?

[crankedup5]

captain_cynic said:

blueg33 said:

Bully for you!

An outcome that has made things worse for most people.

And so confident are that that it's the "will of the people" that we can never, ever, not ever until the heat death of the universe have another say on it. Ever.

Who told you that, the Tory, Labour and Reform U.K. Party.
Do as Farage, form a political alliance, get yourselves National platform and start working toward to what it is you propose. It might take 20/30 years but if Farage can do it !

[StevieBee]

crankedup5 said:

Killboy said:

crankedup5 said:

Yup, some called it a betrayal of the people.

Some called it reality.

Yup, no argument from me on that, and I am content with the outcome.

Are you content with the consequences also?

What's you're favourite EU regulation that you no longer have to follow?

[StevieBee]

captain_cynic said:

blueg33 said:

Bully for you!

An outcome that has made things worse for most people.

And so confident are that that it's the "will of the people" that we can never, ever, not ever until the heat death of the universe have another say on it. Ever.

|https://thumbsnap.com/Xz34r2Yv[/url]

Do we honestly think that had the vote gone the other way by the same margin we would not be still debating the outcome?[url]

[chrispmartha]

crankedup5 said:

I always use my political vote seeking. what should be a beneficial outcome. I have never voted to knowingly place myself in a worse situation.
Worse in way for most people ?

Hasn’t your move to Gibralter fallen through because you can’t get the healthcare you need because we've left the EU?

[Mortarboard]

chrispmartha said:

crankedup5 said:

I always use my political vote seeking. what should be a beneficial outcome. I have never voted to knowingly place myself in a worse situation.
Worse in way for most people ?

Hasn’t your move to Gibralter fallen through because you can’t get the healthcare you need because we've left the EU?

And is so satisfied with the brexit situation he's a fierce supporter of Reform, who'll fix it all.

And yet it's not broken, apparently.
But also is, but not brexit's fault.

M.

[Skeptisk]

Spare tyre said:

I ask every so often, but don’t think I’ve seen it yet.

When do I see the first benefit?

Apparently we have “taken back control”…and our on our second prime minister we didn’t vote for implementing policies the majority don’t want and not solving issues (mass immigration) that was real reason many voted for Brexit.

I read this week that a lot of farmers are upset with how Brexit has turned out, especially now that they aren’t getting EU subsidies. I did think they were quite stupid putting their faith in the free market, neo liberal Tories that were driving Brexit, to keep them afloat in the same way as the EU agricultural policy once Brexit was done.

[crankedup5]

chrispmartha said:

crankedup5 said:

I always use my political vote seeking. what should be a beneficial outcome. I have never voted to knowingly place myself in a worse situation.
Worse in way for most people ?

Hasn’t your move to Gibralter fallen through because you can’t get the healthcare you need because we've left the EU?

No that’s not correct, Gib’ do offer health care and a hospital which are both run close to NHS M.O.
However the problem arises for me personally in that the Gib’ hospital services contract out care to Spanish hospitals for treatments of certain health issues. Still all free at point of delivery for patients.

[crankedup5]

Killboy said:

crankedup5 said:

Yup, some called it a betrayal of the people.

Some called it reality.

Still lost