Trans woman convicted rapist sent to female prison

[Google [bot]]

Clockwork Cupcake said:

Plymo said:

If the certificates become too "easy" to obtain, then they become meaningless, as they would prove nothing

The issue is that right now (in England) you have to convince a board of medical professionals that there is something "wrong" with you that can only be "cured" with transition.

Anyway, let's not go through all this again.

Yea, we should leave the last word to the trans activist who resurrected this dormant thread.

[Vanden Saab]

Clockwork Cupcake said:

Plymo said:

If the certificates become too "easy" to obtain, then they become meaningless, as they would prove nothing

The issue is that right now (in EnglandThe UK) you have to convince a board of medical professionals that there is something "wrong" with you that can only be "cured" with transition.

Anyway, let's not go through all this again.

FTFY.

[Clockwork Cupcake]

Google [bot] said:

Yea, we should leave the last word to the trans activist who resurrected this dormant thread.

Trans activist?

You mean trans women who sticks up for herself in the face of hate and ridicule, rather than meekly being silent? Yeah that's me.

Edited by Clockwork Cupcake on Friday 17th March 20:54

[8.4L 154]

Clockwork Cupcake said:

Plymo said:

If the certificates become too "easy" to obtain, then they become meaningless, as they would prove nothing

The issue is that right now (in England) you have to convince a board of medical professionals that there is something "wrong" with you that can only be "cured" with transition.

Anyway, let's not go through all this again.

I'm not sure how a gender recognition certificate would become meaningless to the trans person obtaining it as the meaning is extremely personal to the trans person and reflects who they are rather than the other way around and it defining them

At the other end of the scale of difficulty to obtain is a change of name deed poll. Obtaining one is ridiculously easy, you can literally write one yourself in word, cut and paste the wording from the .gov site, print it out, find two people to witness your signature and that's it done. Its an incredibly profound and meaningful moment in a trans persons transition, in many ways more meaningful and impactful than obtaining a GRC, so its simply not the case that an easy process would be a meaningless one.

[Randy Winkman]

Clockwork Cupcake said:

Google [bot] said:

Yea, we should leave the last word to the trans activist who resurrected this dormant thread.

Trans activist?

You mean trans women who sticks up for herself in the face of hate and ridicule, rather than meekly being silent? Yeah that's me.

Edited by Clockwork Cupcake on Friday 17th March 20:54

I wondered if that was aimed at you but thought I'd better let you reply.

Though it was Master of Puppets that resurrected the thread to bring up the "playing the system" issue.

[survivalist]

8.4L 154 said:

Clockwork Cupcake said:

Plymo said:

If the certificates become too "easy" to obtain, then they become meaningless, as they would prove nothing

The issue is that right now (in England) you have to convince a board of medical professionals that there is something "wrong" with you that can only be "cured" with transition.

Anyway, let's not go through all this again.

I'm not sure how a gender recognition certificate would become meaningless to the trans person obtaining it as the meaning is extremely personal to the trans person and reflects who they are rather than the other way around and it defining them

At the other end of the scale of difficulty to obtain is a change of name deed poll. Obtaining one is ridiculously easy, you can literally write one yourself in word, cut and paste the wording from the .gov site, print it out, find two people to witness your signature and that's it done. Its an incredibly profound and meaningful moment in a trans persons transition, in many ways more meaningful and impactful than obtaining a GRC, so its simply not the case that an easy process would be a meaningless one.

Sounds like the level of ‘meaning’ is associated to how many people believe in it?

I can print out ‘superhero’ certificate for my children and they can print out ‘world’s best parent’ certificates for me. Doesn’t make any of it real though.

Edited by survivalist on Friday 17th March 21:37

[Clockwork Cupcake]

survivalist said:

Sounds like the level of ‘meaning’ is associated to how many people believe in it?

I can print out ‘superhero’ certificate for my children and they can print out ‘world’s best parent’ certificates for me. Doesn’t make any of it real though.

Which completely ignores the point they were making about Deed Poll name changes.

Or are you saying that changing your name by Deed Poll is meaningless?

[8.4L 154]

survivalist said:

Sounds like the level of ‘meaning’ is associated to how many people believe in it?

I can print out ‘superhero’ certificate for my children and they can print out ‘world’s best parent’ certificates for me. Doesn’t make any of it real though.

Legally even a seed poll is unnecessary to change your name, you can go by any name you want provided your not doing so to commit fraud. Just the act of using a name and being known as that name it becomes your name. Deed polls are only a thing because banks and other institutions rather like a bit of paper to hold "on file" to point at later if needed.

It seems to work ok, very little evidence of cis people using it for fraud, banks, gov, utilities accept them. Given a GRC and a birth certificate has so few uses I doubt there would be any problems with a document issued by the registry office, cos you know they are real documents which superhero and world's best parent certificates aren't, well not beyond the fridge magnet anyway.

[anonymous-user]

Clockwork Cupcake said:

Google [bot] said:

Yea, we should leave the last word to the trans activist who resurrected this dormant thread.

Trans activist?

You mean trans women who sticks up for herself in the face of hate and ridicule, rather than meekly being silent? Yeah that's me.

Edited by Clockwork Cupcake on Friday 17th March 20:54

Ignore Bot. They are as thick as tar and twice as dense.

Personally ladies, I'd advise not bothering to engage with any of the transphobic tripe that get posted on here; This lot don't want to have a measured debate, they want to be the embodiment of the chess playing pigeon, struting about like they won.

Case in point is bumping an ancient thread with some lame arse "gotcha" of a politician saying a thing.

[Rufus Stone]

WorldBoss said:

Ignore Bot. They are as thick as tar and twice as dense.

Personally ladies, I'd advise not bothering to engage with any of the transphobic tripe that get posted on here; This lot don't want to have a measured debate, they want to be the embodiment of the chess playing pigeon, struting about like they won.

Case in point is bumping an ancient thread with some lame arse "gotcha" of a politician saying a thing.

Thanks for the label.

I appreciate that you are disappointed that not everyone agrees with you, but hey, that's life.

[8.4L 154]

Rufus Stone said:

WorldBoss said:

Ignore Bot. They are as thick as tar and twice as dense.

Personally ladies, I'd advise not bothering to engage with any of the transphobic tripe that get posted on here; This lot don't want to have a measured debate, they want to be the embodiment of the chess playing pigeon, struting about like they won.

Case in point is bumping an ancient thread with some lame arse "gotcha" of a politician saying a thing.

Thanks for the label.

I appreciate that you are disappointed that not everyone agrees with you, but hey, that's life.

No one mentioned you, but you responded to the bat signal anyway.

Did you forget who you were logged in as or did you self identify with the label?

[Rufus Stone]

8.4L 154 said:

No one mentioned you, but you responded to the bat signal anyway.

Did you forget who you were logged in as or did you self identify with the label?

The insult wasn't specific so I assumed it was intended for everyone that doesn't agree 100% with him.

Do you think I was wrong?

[Gecko1978]

Clockwork Cupcake said:

survivalist said:

Sounds like the level of ‘meaning’ is associated to how many people believe in it?

I can print out ‘superhero’ certificate for my children and they can print out ‘world’s best parent’ certificates for me. Doesn’t make any of it real though.

Which completely ignores the point they were making about Deed Poll name changes.

Or are you saying that changing your name by Deed Poll is meaningless?

Well one is a title the other is a physical state as such. But I have said many times GRC birth Certs Names pronouns have at it if it makes people happy.

[InitialDave]

Rufus Stone said:

Thanks for the label.

I appreciate that you are disappointed that not everyone agrees with you, but hey, that's life.

"Disappointed not everyone agrees with you" is an... interesting way to frame why trans people may not be happy about the st they have to put up with.

See also: use of the word "debate".

[HM-2]

Rufus Stone said:

8.4L 154 said:

No one mentioned you, but you responded to the bat signal anyway.

Did you forget who you were logged in as or did you self identify with the label?

The insult wasn't specific so I assumed it was intended for everyone that doesn't agree 100% with him.

Do you think I was wrong?

Yes. What's that famous saying about assumption again?

Gecko1978 said:

Well one is a title the other is a physical state as such.

Sorry, I'm a bit lost here. A GRC is a legally document which lets you change other legally-recognised official documents. Nobody, ever, has suggested a GRC alters your chromosomal makeup or anatomy so I'm not sure what "physical state" has to do with anything really.

Edited by HM-2 on Saturday 18th March 09:42

[anonymous-user]

Rufus Stone said:

The insult wasn't specific so I assumed it was intended for everyone that doesn't agree 100% with him.

Do you think I was wrong?

Yes you were wrong.

It wasn't an insult, neither do I deem 'everyone that doesn't agree with me' as posters of "transphobic tripe", neither am I a "him".

[Rufus Stone]

WorldBoss said:

Yes you were wrong.

It wasn't an insult, neither do I deem 'everyone that doesn't agree with me' as posters of "transphobic tripe", neither am I a "him".

Who is it aimed at specifically then?

My apologies for mis-gendering.

[Gecko1978]

InitialDave said:

Rufus Stone said:

Thanks for the label.

I appreciate that you are disappointed that not everyone agrees with you, but hey, that's life.

"Disappointed not everyone agrees with you" is an... interesting way to frame why trans people may not be happy about the st they have to put up with.

See also: use of the word "debate".

I suppose we should ask trans people what they want.

Is it to live as their chosen gender, use their identified gender services like changing rooms (seem fine), to not be discriminated agaist because the choose a gender at odds with there sex (again seems fine).

Do they want others to believe their gender is as they describe when perhaps certian ques make it appear different. So Blair White looks female, Dylan Mulvaney acts like a caricature of a female (has had feminisation surgery so looks less male now)

An at the far extreme (Jeffery what's his chops) do they want to tell children sex is not real an talk to them privately.

My guess is most trans people want the first and very few want the third

[8.4L 154]

Gecko1978 said:

InitialDave said:

Rufus Stone said:

Thanks for the label.

I appreciate that you are disappointed that not everyone agrees with you, but hey, that's life.

"Disappointed not everyone agrees with you" is an... interesting way to frame why trans people may not be happy about the st they have to put up with.

See also: use of the word "debate".

I suppose we should ask trans people what they want.

Is it to live as their chosen gender, use their identified gender services like changing rooms (seem fine), to not be discriminated agaist because the choose a gender at odds with there sex (again seems fine).

Do they want others to believe their gender is as they describe when perhaps certian ques make it appear different. So Blair White looks female, Dylan Mulvaney acts like a caricature of a female (has had feminisation surgery so looks less male now)

An at the far extreme (Jeffery what's his chops) do they want to tell children sex is not real an talk to them privately.

My guess is most trans people want the first and very few want the third

You do know the third is not a phrase trans people use but a catchphrase made up by the gender critical and popularised by JK Rowling as a straw man.

Typically Trans peoples position on sex is that it's more complicated than GCSE biology suggests

[anonymous-user]

Rufus Stone said:

Who is it aimed at specifically then?

My apologies for mis-gendering.

It's aimed specifically at posters of transphobic tripe, many examples of which can be found in this, and the other mildly trans adjacent threads allowed to fester on NP and E.

If you thought it was aimed at you personally then I really don't know what to tell you, I genuinely don't remember any of your posts.

Thanks for the apology .