Yellow vests - fuel protest day of action in France

[citizensm1th]

Digga said:

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/24/france-2019-budget...

Edited by Digga on Monday 11th February 15:19

While it maybe a concern at no point did the EU set, order or impose how the french government was to try and balance its budget to say otherwise is just rubbish.

the discontent in france is down to the french government and the choices it made

now unless you or mr tinfoil can come up with some directive from the EU forcing the french to raise fuel tax and get rid of the tax on wealth (these are i believe the things that started the whole yellow vest protest) i will continue to believe you two are spouting tinfoil hat rubbish.

[dasigty]

citizensm1th said:

oh i totally understand that no one ordered the french government to raise fuel tax let alone the EU so how come mr tinfoil is saying it is the EU,s fault?

Are you a p*ss poor troll, a Russian bot, or just hard of thinking ?, I mean your level of ignorance must be worked at every day to be so complete, perhaps a better sign on would be citizen plumb ?.

[citizensm1th]

dasigty said:

citizensm1th said:

oh i totally understand that no one ordered the french government to raise fuel tax let alone the EU so how come mr tinfoil is saying it is the EU,s fault?

Are you a p*ss poor troll, a Russian bot, or just hard of thinking ?, I mean your level of ignorance must be worked at every day to be so complete, perhaps a better sign on would be citizen plumb ?.

Awwwww is mr tinfiol getting pissy again because he cannot back up his incorrect statements?

everything is a conspiracy with you it must be really sad living with such paranoia

it is very simple show the rest of us where the EU told the french state what taxes it had to raise or get rid of to balance its budget?

[Earthdweller]

citizensm1th said:

Digga said:

citizensm1th said:

dasigty said:

We are fed the lies of how wonderful the EU is from a bought and paid for media/ political elite, what is happening only twenty odd miles from our shores should be a major wake up call on what the EU is.

And this is why you are mr tinfoil

How are internal french political issues the fault of the EU? did the EU tell the french government to increase fuel prices? if so can you provide a link to the relevant eu regulation that forced the french government of macron to do this?

Not directly but both the ECB and the IMF have repeatedly and, with growing forcefulness, warned France about it's budget deficit. It is not sustainable. So the choices are spend less or tax more.

Do you understand?

oh i totally understand that no one ordered the french government to raise fuel tax let alone the EU so how come mr tinfoil is saying it is the EU,s fault?

The Paris Climate accord is pretty responsible where a number of nations pledged a low carbon future, with one very big Country pulling out (guess who)


Macron has pledged to shut all France’s coal power stations and most of if not all their nuclear powers stations ( currently 75% of energy) and replace with renewables wind/hydro etc

Part of that is to make the use of fossil fuels prohibitely expensive to force people to change, diesel being hit hard because it’s the current bad boy !

Unfortunately the peasantry cannot afford to replace their diesel cars with Tesla’s

So whilst no one ordered the French to increase diesel prices it is their response to the global treaty they signed (in Paris) to reduce their carbon footprint

[citizensm1th]

Earthdweller said:

citizensm1th said:

Digga said:

citizensm1th said:

dasigty said:

We are fed the lies of how wonderful the EU is from a bought and paid for media/ political elite, what is happening only twenty odd miles from our shores should be a major wake up call on what the EU is.

And this is why you are mr tinfoil

How are internal french political issues the fault of the EU? did the EU tell the french government to increase fuel prices? if so can you provide a link to the relevant eu regulation that forced the french government of macron to do this?

Not directly but both the ECB and the IMF have repeatedly and, with growing forcefulness, warned France about it's budget deficit. It is not sustainable. So the choices are spend less or tax more.

Do you understand?

oh i totally understand that no one ordered the french government to raise fuel tax let alone the EU so how come mr tinfoil is saying it is the EU,s fault?

The Paris Climate accord is pretty responsible where a number of nations pledged a low carbon future, with one very big Country pulling out (guess who)


Macron has pledged to shut all France’s coal power stations and most of if not all their nuclear powers stations ( currently 75% of energy) and replace with renewables wind/hydro etc

Part of that is to make the use of fossil fuels prohibitely expensive to force people to change, diesel being hit hard because it’s the current bad boy !

Unfortunately the peasantry cannot afford to replace their diesel cars with Tesla’s

So whilst no one ordered the French to increase diesel prices it is their response to the global treaty they signed (in Paris) to reduce their carbon footprint

I know that and you know that but some on here keep trying to say it is the fault of the EU and the EU told the french what to do.

pure fruit loop batst crazy rubbish

[Earthdweller]

WyrleyD said:

I've given up trying to explain why all this is happening as it would appear that those outside France just can't grasp the situation. Here in deepest darkest Limousin the hate for Macron and his ilk has to be heard/seen to be believed, there seems to be a growing number of hand-painted FREXIT signs appearing locally beside the roads and on bridges. The remark you made about cutting spending or raising taxes is correct but the trouble is Macron doesn't seem to be able to do either. Another thing a lot do not understand is that the Police are "police", generally in the bigger towns and cities but Gendarme are in effect para-military and operate out side of the main centres of population.

Some of us are very grateful for you ( and others) personal insights into what is going on

Thanks

[amusingduck]

citizensm1th said:

dasigty said:

We are fed the lies of how wonderful the EU is from a bought and paid for media/ political elite, what is happening only twenty odd miles from our shores should be a major wake up call on what the EU is.

And this is why you are mr tinfoil

How are internal french political issues the fault of the EU? did the EU tell the french government to increase fuel prices? if so can you provide a link to the relevant eu regulation that forced the french government of macron to do this?

Not Macron's government specifically, but the EU do get involved in fuel tax rates.

eea.europa.eu said:

EU minimum levels for road fuel taxes are set out in Council Directive 2003/96/EC on the taxation of energy products. As a result, the minimum excise duty for unleaded petrol increased from EUR 287 to EUR 359 per 1 000 litres. For diesel fuel, the minimum rate increased from EUR 245 to EUR 302 per 1 000 litres in 2004, and up to EUR 330 per 1 000 litres in 2010 (EC, 2007).

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX:32003L0096&from=EN

2004 min tax per 1000L	2010 min tax per 1000L
€302	€330

[Earthdweller]

citizensm1th said:

Earthdweller said:

citizensm1th said:

Digga said:

citizensm1th said:

dasigty said:

We are fed the lies of how wonderful the EU is from a bought and paid for media/ political elite, what is happening only twenty odd miles from our shores should be a major wake up call on what the EU is.

And this is why you are mr tinfoil

How are internal french political issues the fault of the EU? did the EU tell the french government to increase fuel prices? if so can you provide a link to the relevant eu regulation that forced the french government of macron to do this?

Not directly but both the ECB and the IMF have repeatedly and, with growing forcefulness, warned France about it's budget deficit. It is not sustainable. So the choices are spend less or tax more.

Do you understand?

oh i totally understand that no one ordered the french government to raise fuel tax let alone the EU so how come mr tinfoil is saying it is the EU,s fault?

The Paris Climate accord is pretty responsible where a number of nations pledged a low carbon future, with one very big Country pulling out (guess who)


Macron has pledged to shut all France’s coal power stations and most of if not all their nuclear powers stations ( currently 75% of energy) and replace with renewables wind/hydro etc

Part of that is to make the use of fossil fuels prohibitely expensive to force people to change, diesel being hit hard because it’s the current bad boy !

Unfortunately the peasantry cannot afford to replace their diesel cars with Tesla’s

So whilst no one ordered the French to increase diesel prices it is their response to the global treaty they signed (in Paris) to reduce their carbon footprint

I know that and you know that but some on here keep trying to say it is the fault of the EU and the EU told the french what to do.

pure fruit loop batst crazy rubbish

Personally I find it crazy that one of the few European countries that is virtually self sufficient in energy is shutting it all down to be virtuous!

Macron is clearly divorced from the reality of life in rural France away from the fancy arrondisements of Paris

[citizensm1th]

amusingduck said:

citizensm1th said:

dasigty said:

We are fed the lies of how wonderful the EU is from a bought and paid for media/ political elite, what is happening only twenty odd miles from our shores should be a major wake up call on what the EU is.

And this is why you are mr tinfoil

How are internal french political issues the fault of the EU? did the EU tell the french government to increase fuel prices? if so can you provide a link to the relevant eu regulation that forced the french government of macron to do this?

Not Macron's government specifically, but the EU do get involved in fuel tax rates.

eea.europa.eu said:

EU minimum levels for road fuel taxes are set out in Council Directive 2003/96/EC on the taxation of energy products. As a result, the minimum excise duty for unleaded petrol increased from EUR 287 to EUR 359 per 1 000 litres. For diesel fuel, the minimum rate increased from EUR 245 to EUR 302 per 1 000 litres in 2004, and up to EUR 330 per 1 000 litres in 2010 (EC, 2007).

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX:32003L0096&from=EN

2004 min tax per 1000L	2010 min tax per 1000L
€302	€330

All well before macron came to power so that is a fail at finding a EU directive that orders him to raise the taxes he did let alone get rid of the wealth tax.

Next

[wc98]

citizensm1th said:

oh i totally understand that no one ordered the french government to raise fuel tax let alone the EU so how come mr tinfoil is saying it is the EU,s fault?

they might not have ordered an increase but you realise they set a minimum tax rate on fuel for vehicles ? i think in practice most countries tax above the minimum anyway ,particularly us. at one time they were going to harmonise the rate for diesel across the eu, this would have decreased the tax take in many eu countries,by 50% in the uk

EU minimum levels for road fuel taxes are set out in Council Directive 2003/96/EC on the taxation of energy products. As a result, the minimum excise duty for unleaded petrol increased from EUR 287 to EUR 359 per 1 000 litres. For diesel fuel, the minimum rate increased from EUR 245 to EUR 302 per 1 000 litres in 2004, and up to EUR 330 per 1 000 litres in 2010 (EC, 2007).

[amusingduck]

citizensm1th said:

All well before macron came to power so that is a fail at finding a EU directive that orders him to raise the taxes he did let alone get rid of the wealth tax.

Next

I didn't post it to prove you wrong, I posted it because I found it interesting and it's related to the topic

[citizensm1th]

Earthdweller said:

Personally I find it crazy that one of the few European countries that is virtually self sufficient in energy is shutting it all down to be virtuous!

Macron is clearly divorced from the reality of life in rural France away from the fancy arrondisements of Paris

I agree i cannot understand why they would shut down Nuclear ? if anything we as a world need to be building more

coal and gas there is an argument to be made to close them down (personally i would be converting to biomass with carbon capture tech)

[wc98]

WyrleyD said:

I've given up trying to explain why all this is happening as it would appear that those outside France just can't grasp the situation. Here in deepest darkest Limousin the hate for Macron and his ilk has to be heard/seen to be believed, there seems to be a growing number of hand-painted FREXIT signs appearing locally beside the roads and on bridges. The remark you made about cutting spending or raising taxes is correct but the trouble is Macron doesn't seem to be able to do either. Another thing a lot do not understand is that the Police are "police", generally in the bigger towns and cities but Gendarme are in effect para-military and operate out side of the main centres of population.

please don't give up, always good to have someone on the ground that can tell it as it is as i don't do twitter, facebook or instagram . i can understand the sentiment re macron and his cronies, i don't think it is just a french phenomena though. the crony capitalist elite along with their political bhes don't seem to be flavour of the month anywhere at the moment.

[citizensm1th]

wc98 said:

they might not have ordered an increase but you realise they set a minimum tax rate on fuel for vehicles ? i think in practice most countries tax above the minimum anyway ,particularly us. at one time they were going to harmonise the rate for diesel across the eu, this would have decreased the tax take in many eu countries,by 50% in the uk

EU minimum levels for road fuel taxes are set out in Council Directive 2003/96/EC on the taxation of energy products. As a result, the minimum excise duty for unleaded petrol increased from EUR 287 to EUR 359 per 1 000 litres. For diesel fuel, the minimum rate increased from EUR 245 to EUR 302 per 1 000 litres in 2004, and up to EUR 330 per 1 000 litres in 2010 (EC, 2007).

Again though None of that lead to the yellow vests it was purely internal french policy nothing to do with the EU that sparked these protests.

Its the same old thing the Poor (especially the rural poor) feeling left behind and marginalised by the metropolitan relatively better off.

And now it has been hijacked by the usual suspects on the extremes of both side of french politics

[Digga]

citizensm1th said:

Again though None of that lead to the yellow vests it was purely internal french policy nothing to do with the EU that sparked these protests.

Its the same old thing the Poor (especially the rural poor) feeling left behind and marginalised by the metropolitan relatively better off.

And now it has been hijacked by the usual suspects on the extremes of both side of french politics

So why the "Frexit" banners then? What, precisely, qualifies your comments about France to be better than those of the French population?

[citizensm1th]

Digga said:

So why the "Frexit" banners then? What, precisely, qualifies your comments about France to be better than those of the French population?

so why "juden" being sprayed over shop fronts during the riots?

all sorts of people are attaching themselves to these protests, we even had left and right wing yellow vests beating each other this weekend.

[Helicopter123]

citizensm1th said:

Digga said:

So why the "Frexit" banners then? What, precisely, qualifies your comments about France to be better than those of the French population?

so why "juden" being sprayed over shop fronts during the riots?

all sorts of people are attaching themselves to these protests, we even had left and right wing yellow vests beating each other this weekend.

Plenty of 'walts' as well as your usual keyboard warriors trying to use the 'yellow vests' to push their own views.

[isaldiri]

Digga said:

The truth is, however, very simple; the broad church of Yellow Vests spans a huge cross-section of society and their opinions are deeply rooted and very much opposed to the status quo.

That's a pretty sweeping statement I think. Wanting to get involved with the european MEP elections will prove if it's really a couple of hundred thousand people claiming to represent 50m people or just a couple of hundred thousand people who are making a lot of noise. If it doesn't go as expected the yellow vest thing probably would just sink like a stone (until the next big french protest that will inevitably come round).

There's no doubt that Macron is a prat of the first order but that's a big stretch to thinking the country as a whole is as keen on the whole yellow vest thing now as in december before the french government reversed policy.

[Wobbegong]

https://edition.cnn.com/2017/05/08/europe/french-v...


Interesting report on the voting at the last French election.

Most of my friends went for a “ballot blanc”. While many French voted for Macron simply to keep Le Pen out, a very high number decided that they couldn’t decide between the two. Shows how fragile Macron’s position is.

[Vanden Saab]

citizensm1th said:

amusingduck said:

citizensm1th said:

dasigty said:

We are fed the lies of how wonderful the EU is from a bought and paid for media/ political elite, what is happening only twenty odd miles from our shores should be a major wake up call on what the EU is.

And this is why you are mr tinfoil

How are internal french political issues the fault of the EU? did the EU tell the french government to increase fuel prices? if so can you provide a link to the relevant eu regulation that forced the french government of macron to do this?

Not Macron's government specifically, but the EU do get involved in fuel tax rates.

eea.europa.eu said:

EU minimum levels for road fuel taxes are set out in Council Directive 2003/96/EC on the taxation of energy products. As a result, the minimum excise duty for unleaded petrol increased from EUR 287 to EUR 359 per 1 000 litres. For diesel fuel, the minimum rate increased from EUR 245 to EUR 302 per 1 000 litres in 2004, and up to EUR 330 per 1 000 litres in 2010 (EC, 2007).

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX:32003L0096&from=EN

2004 min tax per 1000L	2010 min tax per 1000L
€302	€330

All well before macron came to power so that is a fail at finding a EU directive that orders him to raise the taxes he did let alone get rid of the wealth tax.

Next

DIRECTIVE (EU) 2018/2001 OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL of 11 December 2018 on the promotion of the use of energy from renewable sources

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF...

EU said:

In order to ensure consolidation of the results achieved under Directive 2009/28/EC, the national targets set for 2020 should constitute Member States' minimum contributions to the new 2030 framework. Under no circumstances should the national shares of renewable energy fall below those contributions. If they do, the relevant Member States should take appropriate measures as provided for in Regulation (EU) 2018/1999 to ensure that that baseline share is regained. If a Member State does not maintain its baseline share over a 12-month period, it should, within 12 months of the end of that period, take additional measures to regain that baseline share. Where a Member State has effectively taken such additional measures and has fulfilled its obligation to regain the baseline share, it should be deemed to have complied with the mandatory baseline share requirements under this Directive and under Regulation (EU) 2018/1999 for the entire period in question. The Member State in question cannot therefore be considered to have failed to fulfil its obligation to maintain its baseline share for the period in time where the gap occurred. Both the 2020 and 2030 frameworks serve the environmental and energy policy objectives of the Union.
Member States should take additional measures in the event that the share of renewable energy at Union level does not meet the Union trajectory towards the renewable energy target of at least 32 %. Under Regulation (EU) 2018/1999 the Commission may take measures at Union level in order to ensure achievement of the target if an ambition gap is identified by the Commission during the assessment of the integrated national energy and climate plans. If the Commission identifies a delivery gap during its assessment of the integrated national energy and climate progress reports, Member States should apply the measures provided for in Regulation (EU) 2018/1999 to close that gap.

Fuel prices may be not, renewables most certainly. Frances target for 2020 is 23% renewables. Not necessarily a bad thing but it is EU policy albeit agreed by the French and the EU have powers to enforce it. Explains why Macron is shutting down the coal fired stations...