Lad killed by US wrong side driver, who's done a bunk...

Lad killed by US wrong side driver, who's done a bunk...

Author
Discussion

The Mad Monk

10,493 posts

119 months

Thursday 4th February 2021
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purplepenguin said:
Unfortunate, Anne sacoolas is not an adult, she’s a coward
Once all the name calling is out of the way, where are we going with this?

anonymous-user

56 months

Thursday 4th February 2021
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It looks to me that the only remaining avenue for the parents is the civil action in Virginia, if the Court in Virginia decides to let the claim proceed after the Defendant's application to dismiss the claim. I do not know what arguments are being deployed on that application.

In the judicial review in England last year, it was established that Sacoolas had the requisite immunity at the time of the incident. It is not evident that anything has changed as to that position.

It would theoretically be possible to sue for damages in England, serve the English claim on Sacoolas in Virginia, and proceed to a default judgment against her, but the judgment would probably not be enforced in the US.

Ayahuasca

27,428 posts

281 months

Thursday 4th February 2021
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Breadvan72 said:
She's a cowardly adult but I agree that a face to face confrontation would achieve nothing.
A face to face confrontation between Sacoolas and a robust door stepping journalist and camera team would achieve the aim of keeping it and her in the public eye.

anonymous-user

56 months

Thursday 4th February 2021
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That would amount to pretty much nothing, or at least nothing of any real value.

996Type

774 posts

154 months

Thursday 4th February 2021
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If she worked for Intelligence as the article states, would it not raise questions regards her capabilities in the field if she didn’t even know which side of the road to be on in the country she was posted?

anonymous-user

56 months

Thursday 4th February 2021
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996Type said:
If she worked for Intelligence as the article states, would it not raise questions regards her capabilities in the field if she didn’t even know which side of the road to be on in the country she was posted?
What an odd thing to say. Any human working in any field can make a stupid mistake.

Also, whether Sacoolas is any good at whatever her job is has zero relevance to the incident and its aftermath.

PS: You know, I take it, that the word "Intelligence" in a military context is not a reference to how smart a person is.

Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 4th February 08:48

vaud

51,014 posts

157 months

Thursday 4th February 2021
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Ayahuasca said:
A face to face confrontation between Sacoolas and a robust door stepping journalist and camera team would achieve the aim of keeping it and her in the public eye.
Maybe best not to doorstep people who may be heavily armed.

Also, not sure the US media care that much.

anonymous-user

56 months

Thursday 4th February 2021
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The Mad Monk said:
purplepenguin said:
Unfortunate, Anne sacoolas is not an adult, she’s a coward
Once all the name calling is out of the way, where are we going with this?
Name calling or not, the woman is a coward regardless of “where are we going with this”

saaby93

32,038 posts

180 months

Thursday 4th February 2021
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The thread title doesnt help with some of this argument.
Surely with all we know and dont know it should be

Lad killed in collision with US wrong side driver

anonymous-user

56 months

Thursday 4th February 2021
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The thread title is completely accurate. What's the problem?

996Type

774 posts

154 months

Thursday 4th February 2021
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Breadvan72 said:
996Type said:
If she worked for Intelligence as the article states, would it not raise questions regards her capabilities in the field if she didn’t even know which side of the road to be on in the country she was posted?
What an odd thing to say. Any human working in any field can make a stupid mistake.

Also, whether Sacoolas is any good at whatever her job is has zero relevance to the incident and its aftermath.

PS: You know, I take it, that the word "Intelligence" in a military context is not a reference to how smart a person is.

Edited by Breadvan72 on Thursday 4th February 08:48
I don’t think it’s an odd comment, no. And she wasn’t just any human working in any field as the article actually states, she was here in an intelligence capacity. Not sure spelling it out will help further.

There would be extensive aptitude tests to progress and get to such postings. A posting to the U.K. would require a briefing regards local customs etc among many other things. If she is in such a role, ability to process this information for her safety and those around her would be part of the fabric of what she does.

Yes, I understand the meaning of the word intelligence in the context of the article thank and that was entirely my point.

If she was ignorant to such a fundamental fact (which side of the road to be on), it shows at least part of that brief (regards her job and her subsequent presence / safety here in the U.K. as a representative of the U.S.) has been ignored, forgotten or disregarded.

A stupid mistake is one thing, but she wasn’t a tourist straight off a plane driving the wrong way around the M25, again as the article states.

Especially as the consequence of this one stupid mistake (which would have been covered during the posting brief to prevent this very type of incident) has (a) killed someone and (b) raised the profile of her presence here. If that wouldn’t raise questions of capability regards aptitude for the particular role she allegedly held, I’m not sure what would.


anonymous-user

56 months

Thursday 4th February 2021
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That is still a bizarre position. Sacoolas had a moment of absent mindedness. It could happen to anyone, regardless of their job. That was regrettable but not deliberate or shameful. What she did after the event was deliberate and shameful.

omniflow

2,624 posts

153 months

Thursday 4th February 2021
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996Type said:
I don’t think it’s an odd comment, no. And she wasn’t just any human working in any field as the article actually states, she was here in an intelligence capacity. Not sure spelling it out will help further.

There would be extensive aptitude tests to progress and get to such postings. A posting to the U.K. would require a briefing regards local customs etc among many other things. If she is in such a role, ability to process this information for her safety and those around her would be part of the fabric of what she does.

Yes, I understand the meaning of the word intelligence in the context of the article thank and that was entirely my point.
Are you sure about this?

What are the chances that a married couple with their own careers both manage to find overseas postings in the same location that are both relevant to their career path.

Out of the two of them, one of them was here to further their career, the other one took / was given a role to keep them happy.

It's a 50/50 chance that it was her.

anonymous-user

56 months

Thursday 4th February 2021
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Also, who cares whether Sacoolas had the right qualities for whatever job she had at the base? That is more irrelevant than an irrelevant thing.

anonymous-user

56 months

Thursday 4th February 2021
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Out of interest, what cause of action do the family have against her? Is it the same cause in the US as it would be in the UK? Is it damages based and, if so, how are they typically calculated?

anonymous-user

56 months

Thursday 4th February 2021
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I do not know the law of Virginia. In England, the cause of action would be based on the Fatal Accidents Act 1976.

There can be a claim for dependency - probably not applicable here as that claim can be made only by some dependents.

There can be a claim for bereavement - somewhat nominal compensation for grief.

There can also be a claim for funeral expenses.

anonymous-user

56 months

Thursday 4th February 2021
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Much larger damages might possibly be obtained in Virginia, where the claim might be decided by a jury.

anonymous-user

56 months

Thursday 4th February 2021
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Cheers, BV.

PurpleTurtle

7,154 posts

146 months

Thursday 4th February 2021
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996Type said:
Breadvan72 said:
996Type said:
If she worked for Intelligence as the article states, would it not raise questions regards her capabilities in the field if she didn’t even know which side of the road to be on in the country she was posted?
What an odd thing to say. Any human working in any field can make a stupid mistake.

Also, whether Sacoolas is any good at whatever her job is has zero relevance to the incident and its aftermath.

PS: You know, I take it, that the word "Intelligence" in a military context is not a reference to how smart a person is.

Edited by Breadvan72 on Thursday 4th February 08:48
I don’t think it’s an odd comment, no. And she wasn’t just any human working in any field as the article actually states, she was here in an intelligence capacity. Not sure spelling it out will help further.

There would be extensive aptitude tests to progress and get to such postings. A posting to the U.K. would require a briefing regards local customs etc among many other things. If she is in such a role, ability to process this information for her safety and those around her would be part of the fabric of what she does.

Yes, I understand the meaning of the word intelligence in the context of the article thank and that was entirely my point.

If she was ignorant to such a fundamental fact (which side of the road to be on), it shows at least part of that brief (regards her job and her subsequent presence / safety here in the U.K. as a representative of the U.S.) has been ignored, forgotten or disregarded.

A stupid mistake is one thing, but she wasn’t a tourist straight off a plane driving the wrong way around the M25, again as the article states.

Especially as the consequence of this one stupid mistake (which would have been covered during the posting brief to prevent this very type of incident) has (a) killed someone and (b) raised the profile of her presence here. If that wouldn’t raise questions of capability regards aptitude for the particular role she allegedly held, I’m not sure what would.
I'm reasonably intelligent, university degree, have held a responsible position in IT for 25yrs, but I still once made the same mistake Anne Sacoolas did.

I'm experienced in driving on the right hand side overseas, and was 14 days into a ski trip in Denver a few years back where I was designated driver of our group minivan. Every morning, same journey, take everyone to the slopes, return them back at the end of the day. Rinse and repeat. It was a trip without incident for the entire fortnight. However, on the last morning, instead of turning right out of the driveway of our rented chalet, I turned left for the airport. My 'at home' driving kicked in momentarily, and I drove up a main road in the US on the left side, albeit only for a few moments.

Fortunately for me there was a large truck bearing down on us in the distance, and I had 7 people in the back of the minivan who all simultaneously screamed 'WRONG SIDE!!!' so I was able to correct this mistake without incident. Fortunately I didn't have a young lad coming towards me on his motorbike on his correct side of the road, over the brow of a hill, with no visibility.

Had I caused an accident resulting in someone's death I would have expected to be appropriately dealt with by the US authorities.

Does this one momentary mistake make me any less qualified for my chosen profession? No it doesn't.

Hair-splitting of ridiculous proportions. Her day to day capability in her job is of no interest to the average British citizen, notwithstanding whatever dark arts she might have been involved in. The only thing that matters is her fleeing from the law of the land under the highly dubious auspices of diplomatic immunity.

It's a long time since I studied the law, but IIRC whenever there was any doubt as to the intention of the law you should ask what the proverbial man on the Clapham Omnibus would think? Would he expect Mrs Sacoolas to stand trial for Causing Death by Careless Driving in a UK court? Yes he would, and she should be dragged back here as soon as is practical. Would she go to prison? Most certainly not.

We all know that if the boot were on the other foot any British citizen would be facing a US court, it absolutely stinks.




Edited by PurpleTurtle on Thursday 4th February 14:10

Ayahuasca

27,428 posts

281 months

Friday 5th February 2021
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One difference might be that ‘intelligence’ people might be expected to work best when their face, name and profession are not well known.